The utilization of fur in sustainable fashion

Christine Tsui Fashion Community Group Discussion

The Utilization of Fur in Sustainable Fashion

 

Date:01/05/2018

Time: 8pm to 10pm

Host by Midori-shanghai-designer

Pisces, a post-90s designer with mild obsessive-compulsive disorder, has a strong executive power and a combination of care and patience. Three years local brand designer experience, in the design has its own preference and opinion.

 The outline of discussion:

 

1.  Definition of fur.

1.1What is fur? (10 min)

1.2 Production of genuine fur (20min)

2. The application of fur in the clothing industry.

2.1 What kind of clothes does fur usually make? (20 min)

2.2 How to maintain the clothing of fur? (20 min)

3. The application of fur in society.

3.1 Since the application of dermis involves the killing of animals, how do you think about this problem? 30 (mim)

4. How to get fur into sustainable fashion (30min)

 

Forward

In the fashion industry, the use of animal fur has been controversial. In recent years, many luxury brands have launched calls to reject the use of fur. In addition to the cruelty with which animal fur is used, Will it still have a place in the fashion industry? How to use fur to develop in the field of sustainable fashion?

 

PART ONE: Definition of Fur

 

1. What is fur? 

Fur is the hair covering of non-human (and some human furry) mammals, particularly those mammals with extensive body hair that is soft and thick. The stiffer bristles on animals such as pigs are not generally referred to as fur.

 

The discussion is as follows:

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

What is fur?(10min)

Midori-shanghai-designer

By nature

Midori-shanghai-designer

like this

(pictures come from the web)

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur is also used to refer to animal pelts which has been processed into leather with the hair still attached. The words fur or furry are also used, more casually, to refer to hair-like growths or formations, particularly When the subject is referred to exhibits a dense coat of fine, soft “hairs”.

Midori-shanghai-designer

If layered, rather than grown as a single coat, it may consist of short down hairs, long guard hairs, and in some cases, medium awn hairs.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Ok,that is very complex

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Very detailed

Midori-shanghai-designer

Our topic Fur refers to the use of animal fur made of clothing ,has a warm effect.

Yohanna

Now many brands use artificial fur

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Seems that any fur could be made into cloth?

Midori-shanghai-designer

and now the fur is more beautiful and higher prices are also many consumers. Animals such as foxes, rex rabbits , and sheep are all major sources of raw materials for fur.

 

2. Production of Genuine Fur 

There are many kinds of fur classification methods, which can be divided in to early maturity, middle maturity, late maturity and most advanced maturity according to the mature period of the hair.

 

The discussion is as follows: 

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur clothing was first worn during the fourteenth to seventh and is a symbolic garment in European History

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Means how old the animal is when you kill it?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer  cool

Midori-shanghai-designer

So we’ll sort it out according to the way the hair is treated.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

But I will say human like native Indians, Vikings ,and other wear fur for sake of keeping warm .

Midori-shanghai-designer

What kind of fur do you know ?

Midori-shanghai-designer

The need for warmth.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

How is it with the maturity?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I’m interested

Midori-shanghai-designer

No , we’re not talking about skin removal.

Midori-shanghai-designer

According to the processing methods, they can be classified into the tanned, dyeing and finishing classes, shearing Class.

  • According to the appearance characteristics can be divided into thick fur, represented by fox skin; medium-thick fur, represented by molting; thin fur, represented by Persian lambskin.
  • It is more commonly used by people to classify them by the fur and the cortex of the raw material.
  • Small hairy skins: mainly include purple mink, chinchilla (Chrysanthemum, also known as Chrysanthemum) mink skin, mink skin, sea dragon skin, snow fleas, yellow skin, AI tiger skin, chin rat skin, silver skin, Musk skin, beaver skin, raccoon skin, etc.,
  • hair is thin and soft. Suitable for hair caps, coats and so on. Large capillary class: mainly including foxes, raccoon skins, tanned skins, raccoon skins, and raccoon skins. Larger picture. It is often used to make hats, coats, capes, etc.
  • Rough fur: Commonly used sheepskin, dog skin, wolf skin, leopard skin, marmot skin and so on. The hair length and width are slightly larger. Can be used to make hats, coats, vests, clothes, etc.
  • Miscellaneous fur: including cat skin, rabbit skin, etc., suitable for clothing accessories, the price is lower.

Midori-shanghai-designer

That’s my classification of the leather used in clothing.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Do you have another question of fur?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Do you have some pictures ?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Seadragon skin for example…I can’t really imagine how it looks like

Midori-shanghai-designer

the picture is from sinaweibo

Midori-shanghai-designer

This is Seadragon

 Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

or around the hood  @Alena~Shanghai~AGL damn…how do they hunt these guys down

 Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I guess it is the same like seals

Midori-shanghai-designer

Seadog skin, commonly known as “sea dragon skin”@Alena~Shanghai~AGL

 Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I had no idea they are used for fur to be honest.

 Midori-shanghai-designer

So the use of real leather is cruel.

 

PART TWO: The Application of Fur in Garment Industry 

 

1. What kind of clothes does fur usually make? 

Animal fur is often made into shoes, bags, accessories, coats, sweaters, down jackets, and other clothing. Commonly used are mink hair, rabbit hair, fox hair, wool, hippocampal hair, cattle skin, sheep skin, pig skin, etc.

 

 The discussion is as follows:

 

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

It doesn’t have anything to do with staying warm as they have been other materials invented

Midori-shanghai-designer

Let’s take a look at the history of fur use.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur clothing was first worn during the fourteenth to seventh century and is a symbolic garment in European History. The kings and queens of England ordered proclamations to regulate fur aka “sumptuary legislation”.

  • Sumptuary legislation established the stigmatism of Fur association limited to the higher social statuses and convey the idea of exclusivity.
  • Exotic furs such as fox, marten, grey squirrel and ermine were reserved for aristocratic elites. The middle class were known to wear fox, hare and beaver while the less fortunate wore Goat, wolf and sheepskin. Due to clothing being loose and garments were known to be layered, fur was used for visible linings. Different kinds of fur were worn during seasons and social classes. Animals with fur decreased in West Europe and began to be Imported from the Middle East and Russia

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

So it is a historical issue right

Midori-shanghai-designer

The fur at first was used as clothing for the royal family.

 Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Because of its scarcity?

Midori-shanghai-designer

So only noble people wear fur.

 Sailinli-Beijing-Researcher

In ancient China fur was also graded.

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

Represent the power.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Because of the natural warmth of fur and the complexity of making clothes.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Of course ,in ancient hunting ,the fur of a hunted animal was worn as a symbol of victory.

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ   A little symbol of power.

 Midori-shanghai-designer

As new kinds of fur entered Europe, other uses were made with fur other than clothing. Beaver was most desired but used to make hats which became a popular headpiece particularly during the wartime. Swedish soldier wore broad-brimmed hats made exclusive from beaver felt. Due to the limitations of beaver fur, hat-makers relied heavily on North America for imports as beaver was only available in the Scandinavian peninsula.

Midori-shanghai-designer

this is beaver

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

So Cruel

Midori-shanghai-designer

The twentieth century was the beginning of the fur coats being fashionable in West Europe with full fur coats. With lifestyle changes as a result of developments like indoor heating, the international textile trade Affected how fur was distributed around the world. Europeans focused on using local resources giving fur association with femininity with the increasing use of mink. In 1970, Germany was the world’s largest fur market. The International Fur Trade Federation banned endangering species furs like silk monkey, ocelot, leopard, tiger, and polar bear in 1975. The use of animal skins were brought to light during the 1980s by animal right organizations and the demand for fur decreased. Anti-fur organizations increased awareness of the controversy between animal welfare and fashion. Fur farming became banned in Britain in 1999. During the twenty-first century, fox and mink have been bred in captivity with Denmark, Holland and Finland being leaders of mink production.

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

In addition to the fur applications mentioned above,do you know of other fur applications?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Now there are wool,fox hair are used to make cloth.

Midori-shanghai-designer

These furs are usually used in sweater ,sand down jackets.

 

2. How to maintain the clothing of fur? 

 

When placed indoors, for fur clothes:

a. It is best to hang in a dark, low temperature, well ventilated, dry environment.

b. Fur garments should be hung on special hangers with high-necked, wide-shouldered shoulders, and covered with a silk cover, and stored in a closet with air circulation.

c. There should be at least 6 cm space between the fur and other clothes to allow the fur to “breathe”.

d. Do not contaminate fur with other chemicals.5. In the summer, special attention should be paid to avoid high temperature and humidity and insect ant damage.

 

High-grade fur cleaning (mink skin).

Washing powder: Magnesium oxide powder, talcum powder ratio 1:1

Washing method: Spread the fur on the wash case, evenly rub the quilt with a sponge duster, wipe the special soiled part repeatedly, stand for 24 hours, clean the hair powder with a brush, and then put the fur on the portrait on the air mold, the powder was blown clean with an air spray gun, and the hair was straightened with a fine-tooth comb.

 

Ordinary fur cleaning (sheep skin).

Washing solvent: 95% alcohol Common dose: Alcohol 200-250ml

Washing powder: Talc powder Common dosage: Talc 500-1000g

Washing method: Put the fur on the figure air mold, spray the alcohol solvent evenly onto the blanket with an air spray gun, repeatedly rub the hair quilt with a sponge duster, supplement with a gentle rubbing, sweep the hair with a brush Powder, and then use air spray gun to clean the powder, with a sparse comb to the hair to be straight forward to clear the finishing.

 

White plush yellowing treatment.

Washing solution: hydrogen peroxide, water ratio 1:10

Washing method: Put the fur on the figure air mold, spray the solution evenly onto the blanket with an air spray gun, fully wet for 5 minutes, gently brush with a short-haired brushing solution from top to bottom, and finally use a water spray gun to coat the hair. Rinse thoroughly, place in a cool, dry place, and clean the hair in a straight line.

 

The discussion is as follows:

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

Do you know how to tell a hairy garment?

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

By burning?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Then smell it~

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Just like distinct different fabrics ,does different fur has different smell?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Because there is a lot of wool-like clothing now , it’s not realistic to burn it alone , for the general public.

Midori-shanghai-designer

True wool contains a lot of protein ,and a few fibers are ignited on the clothes . Smell the scent .Look at the ash .If there is a charred scent ,the ash is crushed with a finger ,that is pure wool ;if there is no smell of charred feathers ,Ash pressure is not broken ,ag glomeration , it is chemical fiber fabrics. @Heather-Wuhan-AGL

 

PART THREE: The Application of Fur in Society

1. Since the application of dermis involves the killing of animals, how do you think about this problem? 

Fur used a lot of chemicals in the production process for degreasing and cleaning, such as formaldehyde. Damage to the surrounding water quality and the environment. This is contrary to the current concept of low-carbon environmental protection.

Some people have suggested that “for a piece of clothing, whether or not animals should be given a cruel price,” so-called no-buy, no harm, how consumers should take action?

 

The discussion is as follows:

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people indiscriminately kill wild animals in the drive of their interests, leaving some rare wild animals on the verge of extinction,anyone agree that?

Midori-shanghai-designer

With the increase of human morality and civilization, the concept of environmental protection has received more and more attention. Fur and environmental protection have become the subject of constant controversy. What do you think?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainable sourcing

 Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

can real fur sourcing be ethical and sustainable?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Well I guess everybody agree

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

As long as it means killing a living creature

Midori-shanghai-designer

also,fur used a lot of chemicals in the production process for degreasing and cleaning, such as formaldehyde. Damage to the surrounding water quality and the environment. This is contrary to the current concept of low-carbon environmental protection.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

fur has been part of humanity society since early homo sapiens.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

And there have been so many leaked videos about the conditions of the animals.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

so no real fur will be change of our mindset

Midori-shanghai-designer

Besides, if you don’t have real fur, will you be wearing fur imitation clothes?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes, but back then the fur was used for survival reasons

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

keep warmth

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

fur is excellent on this

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Of course

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

like duck or Goose down

 Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

also wool is a superior fiber

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

But aren’t other materials now very good in keeping us warm as well?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

not as good

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

down is breathable

Midori-shanghai-designer

But will the production of imitation fur also cause pollution to the environment?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes it will

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Now there is a question what is better

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

In terms of protecting the environment

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

all those polyester based padding doesnt breath so well and not easy to have same level of warmth but technology is improving

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people have suggested that “for a piece of clothing, whether or not animals should be given a cruel price,” so-called no-buy, no harm, how consumers should take action.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

It depends much on consumers’ attitude

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

we should focus on low impact on the environment and longevity of the product

 Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

So , whatever we do we impact the environment as little as possible for sustainable living for mankind @Alena~Shanghai~AGL reused

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Can fur be recycled?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

for sure

 Midori-shanghai-designer

So, in recent years, many brands have called for a boycott of fur. Does this work?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer when u boycott . somebody somewhere may Lose their job

 

PART FOUR: How to get fur into sustainable fashion

 

a. Finding new ways to produce textiles 

b. Natural furs from wild hunting and farming are sustainable

 

The discussion is as follows:

 

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

everyone do their part… step by step approach

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

reuse old fur

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

yes,especially farm consumers,every one of us

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

use fur that related to food industry?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

You use the fur of the animals that is used for food industry…

Midori-shanghai-designer

Finding new ways to produce textiles

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Also an option

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL yea that can have lower impact

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

True

 Midori-shanghai-designer

Different ways of producing and processing materials means that they have different effects on the environment. As we all know, there are risks in the production of petroleum compounds, such as the pollution from the chemical refining process to the toxic chemicals emitted during the production of chemical fiber fabrics. However, there are deficiencies in each fabric, including organic fabrics. For example, traditional methods of cotton cultivation use large amounts of water, synthetic fertilizers, and pesticides, which also destroy the habitat of wild animals. In the case of agricultural farming, waste treatment also needs to be considered. Another consideration is the environmental impact of raw materials and garments. Clothing entirely produced and sold locally has less impact on the environment than garments produced and sold in multiple locations, such as the production of chemical fiber garments, oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, processing into fabrics in China, sewing in Vietnam, and then selling in Europe.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

But there wouldn’t be sufficient supply

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

price would go up and more pepole would enter

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

And there we go again

Midori-shanghai-designer

sorry,this is too long

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

There should be only a law enforcement

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

and may lead to more animal getting killed

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Viciouscircl

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Circle

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people think that farmed fur is also environmentally friendly

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainable living for mankind and sustainable economic growth

Midori-shanghai-designer

Materials can be divided into two categories: organic materials (plants and animals) and inorganic materials (coal, petroleum, ore, etc.).

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I just wish there weren’t those Russian fur farms where the skin the animals alive and leave them to die

Midori-shanghai-designer

Organic materials are sustainable because they can be regenerated; plants and animals can continue to grow and can be continuously replenished. Common in clothing are cotton, linen, bamboo, wool, natural fur, down and leather. Inorganic materials are not sustainable because they cannot be regenerated; once they are consumed, they really disappear, unless more inorganic materials can be found. Important inorganic materials used in chemical fiber clothing are synthesized from petroleum such as acrylic and polyester.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer goes back to sustainable farming

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

controlled forest

Midori-shanghai-designer

Natural fur farming, like other animal husbandry, is inherently sustainable because farmers can decide on the number of animals to feed based on market conditions

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer u always need to predict

Midori-shanghai-designer

We can indirectly believe that aquaculture is actually conducive to wild hunting because of the high demand for farmed animals while reducing the pressure of wild hunting.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur farming also minimizes the impact on the environment through other means, such as the use of human food residues for animal feeding; the use of manure as agricultural organic fertilizers; and the conversion of carcasses into biofuels.

Midori-shanghai-designer

and what do you think about it?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer is good start

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Hmmm I guess

Midori-shanghai-designer

Natural fur is one of the most sustainable materials on the planet. It comes from the sustainable production of natural materials, uses rather gentle production processes, and ultimately makes durable and recyclable garments that provide decades of warmth. After being comfortable, it will eventually be fully biodegraded.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Of course, I know what you are thinking: The truth about natural fur (Truth About Fur website) promotes natural fur, so it is not surprising that we praise it.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

what about the use of artificial fur?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Although artificial leather is considered to be friendly to animals, its production process and non-recyclable and non-degradable properties are also indirectly harmful to the environment .@Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Christine-Shanghai-Group founder

to get fur farm animals is also a solution for ecology system.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL we are getting more and more sustainable which is a good direction

Midori-shanghai-designer

These chemical fiber garments will be sent to landfills when they are abandoned. The resulting tiny plastic particles will then damage our oceans.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

i have a PLA based poly bag is my office and is biodegradable but…getting thinner and thinner every time I show people.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

that’s interesting

Midori-shanghai-designer

But if the clothing material we produce has a high durability of 3-5 years, it may reduce the degradation pressure.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I see

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

PLA is from corn starch and if everything turns into PLA then will compete with our food source…means more farmland?

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Vincent-shanghai-Incubator  interesting

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer so how do brands have a sustainable business model?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainability is not just environmental impact and working condition

Midori-shanghai-designer

Does the brand do the recycling of this part of the sustainable business model like h&m

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer they certainly can

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

i am going send my scrap polyester fabrics to recyclers to make recycled polyester yarns

Midori-shanghai-designer

But not many brands have the same ability to handle these used clothes as they do with H & M.

Midori-shanghai-designer

about the topic How to get fur into sustainable fashion my conclusion is

  1. Natural furs from wild hunting and farming are sustainable
  2. Finding new ways to produce textiles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discussion of the original text:

Midori-shanghai-designer

How to get fur into sustainable fashion(30min)

Midori-shanghai-designer

What is fur?(10min)

Midori-shanghai-designer

By nature

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur is the hair covering of non-human (and some human furry) mammals,

particularly those mammals with extensive body hair that is soft and thick.

The stiffer bristles on animals such as pigs are not generally referred to as fur.

Midori-shanghai-designer

like this

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur is also used to refer to animal pelts which has been processed into leather with the hair still attached. The words fur or furry are also used, more casually, to refer to hair-like growths or formations, particularly When the subject is referred to exhibits a dense coat of fine, soft “hairs”.

Midori-shanghai-designer

If layered, rather than grown as a single coat, it may consist of short down hairs, long guard hairs, and in some cases, medium awn hairs.

 

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Ok,that is very complex

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Very detailed

Midori-shanghai-designer

Our topic Fur refers to the use of animal fur made of clothing ,has a warm effect.

Yohanna

Now many brands use artificial fur

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Seems that any fur could be made into cloth?

Midori-shanghai-designer

and now the fur is more beautiful and higher prices are also many consumers . Animals such as foxes , rex rabbits , and sheep are all major sources of raw materials for fur.

Midori-shanghai-designer

So let’s start the next ~

Midori-shanghai-designer

Production of genuine fur (20min)

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur clothing was first worn during the fourteenth to seventh and is a symbolic garment in European History

Midori-shanghai-designer

There are many kinds of fur classification methods ,which can be divided in to early maturity ,middle maturity ,late maturity and most advanced maturity according to the mature period of the hair.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Means how old the animal is when you kill it?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer  cool

Midori-shanghai-designer

So we’ll sort it out according to the way the hair is treated.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

But I will say human like native Indians , Vikings ,and other wear fur for sake of keeping warm .

Midori-shanghai-designer

What kind of fur do you know ?

Midori-shanghai-designer

The need for warmth.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

How is it with the maturity?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I’m interested

Midori-shanghai-designer

No , we’re not talking about skin removal.

Midori-shanghai-designer

According to the processing methods, they can be classified into the tanned, dyeing and finishing classes, shearing Class.

  • According to the appearance characteristics can be divided into thick fur, represented by fox skin; medium-thick fur, represented by molting; thin fur, represented by Persian lambskin.
  • It is more commonly used by people to classify them by the fur and the cortex of the raw material.
  • Small hairy skins: mainly include purple mink, chinchilla (Chrysanthemum, also known as Chrysanthemum) mink skin, mink skin, sea dragon skin, snow fleas, yellow skin, AI tiger skin, chin rat skin, silver skin, Musk skin, beaver skin, raccoon skin, etc.,
  • hair is thin and soft. Suitable for hair caps, coats and so on. Large capillary class: mainly including foxes, raccoon skins, tanned skins, raccoon skins, and raccoon skins. Larger picture. It is often used to make hats, coats, capes, etc.
  • Rough fur: Commonly used sheepskin, dog skin, wolf skin, leopard skin, marmot skin and so on. The hair length and width are slightly larger. Can be used to make hats, coats, vests, clothes, etc.
  • Miscellaneous fur: including cat skin, rabbit skin, etc., suitable for clothing accessories, the price is lower.

Midori-shanghai-designer

That’s my classification of the leather used in clothing.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Do you have another question of fur?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Do you have some pictures ?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Seadragon skin for example…I can’t really imagine how it looks like

Midori-shanghai-designer

the picture is from sinaweibo

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

Raccoon is popular

Midori-shanghai-designer

This is the Sea dragon skin made for coat

Midori-shanghai-designer

What kind of products do raccoons usually use ? @Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

What animal is it?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer fur collar

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

No way!

Midori-shanghai-designer

This is Seadragon

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

or around the hood  @Alena~Shanghai~AGL damn…how do they hunt these guys down

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I guess it is the same like seals

Midori-shanghai-designer

Seadog skin, commonly known as “sea dragon skin”@Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I had no idea they are used for fur to be honest.

Midori-shanghai-designer

So the use of real leather is cruel.

Midori-shanghai-designer

The next~

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Indeed!

Midori-shanghai-designer

The application of fur in the clothing industry.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Well yes.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

The clothing it is just for greed

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

Oh my god,I really cannot imagine that

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

It doesn’t have anything to do with staying warm as they have been other materials invented

Midori-shanghai-designer

Let’s take a look at the history of fur use.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur clothing was first worn during the fourteenth to seventh century and is a symbolic garment in European History. The kings and queens of England ordered proclamations to regulate fur aka “sumptuary legislation”.

  • Sumptuary legislation established the stigmatism of Fur association limited to the higher social statuses and convey the idea of exclusivity.
  • Exotic furs such as fox, marten, grey squirrel and ermine were reserved for aristocratic elites. The middle class were known to wear fox, hare and beaver while the less fortunate wore Goat, wolf and sheepskin. Due to clothing being loose and garments were known to be layered, fur was used for visible linings. Different kinds of fur were worn during seasons and social classes. Animals with fur decreased in West Europe and began to be Imported from the Middle East and Russia

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

So it is a historical issue right

Midori-shanghai-designer

The fur at first was used as clothing for the royal family.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Because of its scarcity?

Midori-shanghai-designer

So only noble people wear fur.

Sailinli-Beijing-Researcher

In ancient China fur was also graded.

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

Represent the power.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Because of the natural warmth of fur and the complexity of making clothes.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Of course ,in ancient hunting ,the fur of a hunted animal was worn as a symbol of victory.

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ   A little symbol of power.

Midori-shanghai-designer

As new kinds of fur entered Europe, other uses were made with fur other than clothing. Beaver was most desired but used to make hats which became a popular headpiece particularly during the wartime. Swedish soldier wore broad-brimmed hats made exclusive from beaver felt. Due to the limitations of beaver fur, hat-makers relied heavily on North America for imports as beaver was only available in the Scandinavian peninsula.

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

this is beaver

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

So Cruel

Midori-shanghai-designer

The twentieth century was the beginning of the fur coats being fashionable in West Europe with full fur coats. With lifestyle changes as a result of developments like indoor heating, the international textile trade Affected how fur was distributed around the world. Europeans focused on using local resources giving fur association with femininity with the increasing use of mink. In 1970, Germany was the world’s largest fur market. The International Fur Trade Federation banned endangering species furs like silk monkey, ocelot, leopard, tiger, and polar bear in 1975. The use of animal skins were brought to light during the 1980s by animal right organizations and the demand for fur decreased. Anti-fur organizations increased awareness of the controversy between animal welfare and fashion. Fur farming became banned in Britain in 1999. During the twenty-first century, fox and mink have been bred in captivity with Denmark, Holland and Finland being leaders of mink production.

 

Midori-shanghai-designer

In addition to the fur applications mentioned above ,do you know of other fur applications?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Now there are wool ,fox hair are used to make cloth

Midori-shanghai-designer

These furs are usually used in sweater ,sand down jackets

Midori-shanghai-designer

Do you know how to tell a hairy garment?

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

By burning?

Midori-shanghai-designer

right~

Midori-shanghai-designer

Then smell it~

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Just like distinct different fabrics ,does different fur has different smell?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Because there is a lot of wool-like clothing now , it’s not realistic to burn it alone , for the general public.

Midori-shanghai-designer

True wool contains a lot of protein ,and a few fibers are ignited on the clothes . Smell the scent .Look at the ash .If there is a charred scent ,the ash is crushed with a finger ,that is pure wool ;if there is no smell of charred feathers ,Ash pressure is not broken ,ag glomeration , it is chemical fiber fabrics. @Heather-Wuhan-AGL

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Thank you.

Midori-shanghai-designer

And I don’t know how to distinguish other furs.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

That’s interesting

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer a lot of recycled wool also in the market

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

And also have recycled duck down

Midori-shanghai-designer

Wow the recycled duck down?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

yep

Midori-shanghai-designer

Use it to make Down jacket ?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

yep

Midori-shanghai-designer

And the duvet quilt?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

yep

Midori-shanghai-designer

How do you recycle and reuse duck down?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Is the way of recycling complicated? @Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

u collect used down jacket

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

i dont know the detail method

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

but i know people who does that

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

and there is also US companies supplied recycled down

Midori-shanghai-designer

Okay .but thank you to tell us that method~

Midori-shanghai-designer

I’ll share some of your common fur care tips.

Enya.Y-Shanghai-PJ

Thank u

Midori-shanghai-designer

When placed indoors, for fur clothes

1.It is best to hang in a dark, low temperature, well ventilated, dry environment.

2.Fur garments should be hung on special hangers with high-necked, wide-shouldered shoulders, and covered with a silk cover, and stored in a closet with air circulation.

3.There should be at least 6 cm space between the fur and other clothes to allow the fur to “breathe”.

4.Do not contaminate fur with other chemicals.5. In the summer, special attention should be paid to avoid high temperature and humidity and insect ant damage.

Midori-shanghai-designer

High-grade fur cleaning (mink skin).

Washing powder: Magnesium oxide powder, talcum powder ratio 1:1

Washing method: Spread the fur on the wash case, evenly rub the quilt with a sponge duster, wipe the special soiled part repeatedly, stand for 24 hours, clean the hair powder with a brush, and then put the fur on the portrait on the air mold, the powder was blown clean with an air spray gun, and the hair was straightened with a fine-tooth comb.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Ordinary fur cleaning (sheep skin).

Washing solvent: 95% alcohol Common dose: Alcohol 200-250ml

Washing powder: Talc powder Common dosage: Talc 500-1000g

Washing method: Put the fur on the figure air mold, spray the alcohol solvent evenly onto the blanket with an air spray gun, repeatedly rub the hair quilt with a sponge duster, supplement with a gentle rubbing, sweep the hair with a brush Powder, and then use air spray gun to clean the powder, with a sparse comb to the hair to be straight forward to clear the finishing.

Midori-shanghai-designer

White plush yellowing treatment.

Washing solution: hydrogen peroxide, water ratio 1:10

Washing method: Put the fur on the figure air mold, spray the solution evenly onto the blanket with an air spray gun, fully wet for 5 minutes, gently brush with a short-haired brushing solution from top to bottom, and finally use a water spray gun to coat the hair. Rinse thoroughly, place in a cool, dry place, and clean the hair in a straight line.

Midori-shanghai-designer

These are the methods of care and washing for the kinds of furs we wear on a daily basis.

Midori-shanghai-designer

If you don’t have any questions about this, let’s move on to the next topic, which may be of interest to you.

Midori-shanghai-designer

The application of fur in society.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Since the application of dermis involves the killing of animals, how do you think about this problem? (30 min)

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people indiscriminately kill wild animals in the drive of their interests, leaving some rare wild animals on the verge of extinction,anyone agree that?

Midori-shanghai-designer

With the increase of human morality and civilization, the concept of environmental protection has received more and more attention. Fur and environmental protection have become the subject of constant controversy. What do you think?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainable sourcing

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

can real fur sourcing be ethical and sustainable?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Well I guess everybody agree

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

That’s what is going on

Midori-shanghai-designer

That’s what’s at issue.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Fur is so unnecessary

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I don’t think so

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

As long as it means killing a living creature

Midori-shanghai-designer

also,fur used a lot of chemicals in the production process for degreasing and cleaning, such as formaldehyde. Damage to the surrounding water quality and the environment. This is contrary to the current concept of low-carbon environmental protection.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

fur has been part of humanity society since early homo sapiens.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

And there have been so many leaked videos about the conditions of the animals.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

so no real fur will be change of our mindset

Midori-shanghai-designer

Besides, if you don’t have real fur, will you be wearing fur imitation clothes?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes, but back then the fur was used for survival reasons

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

keep warmth

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

fur is excellent on this

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Of course

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

like duck or Goose down

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

also wool is a superior fiber

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

But aren’t other materials now very good in keeping us warm as well?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

not as good

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

down is breathable

Midori-shanghai-designer

But will the production of imitation fur also cause pollution to the environment?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Yes it will

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Now there is a question what is better

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

In terms of protecting the environment

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

all those polyester based padding doesnt breath so well and not easy to have same level of warmth but technology is improving

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people have suggested that “for a piece of clothing, whether or not animals should be given a cruel price,” so-called no-buy, no harm, how consumers should take action.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

It depends much on consumers’ attitude

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

we should focus on low impact on the environment and longevity of the product

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

So , whatever we do we impact the environment as little as possible for sustainable living for mankind @Alena~Shanghai~AGL reused

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Can fur be recycled?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

for sure

Midori-shanghai-designer

So,inrecentyears,manybrandshavecalledforaboycottoffur.Doesthiswork So, in recent years, many brands have called for a boycott of fur. Does this work?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer when u boycott . somebody somewhere may Lose their job

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Doesn’t it get bad with age

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL depends on your care

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

just think low impact

Midori-shanghai-designer

yep~~

Midori-shanghai-designer

so,how to get fur into sustainable fashion (30min)

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

everyone do their part… step by step approach

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

reuse old fur

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

yes,especially farm consumers,every one of us

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

use fur that related to food industry?

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

How?

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

You use the fur of the animals that is used for food industry…

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Heather-Wuhan-AGL not sure i am not familiar

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Finding new ways to produce textiles

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Also an option

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL yea that can have lower impact

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

True

Midori-shanghai-designer

Different ways of producing and processing materials means that they have different effects on the environment. As we all know, there are risks in the production of petroleum compounds, such as the pollution from the chemical refining process to the toxic chemicals emitted during the production of chemical fiber fabrics. However, there are deficiencies in each fabric, including organic fabrics. For example, traditional methods of cotton cultivation use large amounts of water, synthetic fertilizers, and pesticides, which also destroy the habitat of wild animals. In the case of agricultural farming, waste treatment also needs to be considered. Another consideration is the environmental impact of raw materials and garments. Clothing entirely produced and sold locally has less impact on the environment than garments produced and sold in multiple locations, such as the production of chemical fiber garments, oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, processing into fabrics in China, sewing in Vietnam, and then selling in Europe.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

But there wouldn’t be sufficient supply

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

yeah

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

price would go up and more ppl would enter

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

And there we go again

Midori-shanghai-designer

sorry,this is too long

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

There should be only a law enforcement

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

and may lead to more animal getting killed

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL u know what this leads to hahah

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Haha

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Sure

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Viciouscircl

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Circle

Midori-shanghai-designer

Some people think that farmed fur is also environmentally friendly

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainable living for mankind and sustainable economic growth

Midori-shanghai-designer

Materials can be divided into two categories: organic materials (plants and animals) and inorganic materials (coal, petroleum, ore, etc.).

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I just wish there weren’t those Russian fur farms where the skin the animals alive and leave them to die

Midori-shanghai-designer

Organic materials are sustainable because they can be regenerated; plants and animals can continue to grow and can be continuously replenished. Common in clothing are cotton, linen, bamboo, wool, natural fur, down and leather. Inorganic materials are not sustainable because they cannot be regenerated; once they are consumed, they really disappear, unless more inorganic materials can be found. Important inorganic materials used in chemical fiber clothing are synthesized from petroleum such as acrylic and polyester.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL yeah,that’s the most cruel part

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer goes back to sustainable farming

Midori-shanghai-designer

yep

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

controlled forest

Midori-shanghai-designer

Natural fur farming, like other animal husbandry, is inherently sustainable because farmers can decide on the number of animals to feed based on market conditions

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer u always need to predict

Midori-shanghai-designer

We can indirectly believe that aquaculture is actually conducive to wild hunting because of the high demand for farmed animals while reducing the pressure of wild hunting.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Fur farming also minimizes the impact on the environment through other means, such as the use of human food residues for animal feeding; the use of manure as agricultural organic fertilizers; and the conversion of carcasses into biofuels.

Midori-shanghai-designer

and what do you think about it?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer is good start

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Hmmm I guess

Midori-shanghai-designer

Natural fur is one of the most sustainable materials on the planet. It comes from the sustainable production of natural materials, uses rather gentle production processes, and ultimately makes durable and recyclable garments that provide decades of warmth. After being comfortable, it will eventually be fully biodegraded.

Midori-shanghai-designer

Of course, I know what you are thinking: The truth about natural fur (Truth About Fur website) promotes natural fur, so it is not surprising that we praise it.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

what about the use of artificial fur?

Midori-shanghai-designer

Although artificial leather is considered to be friendly to animals, its production process and non-recyclable and non-degradable properties are also indirectly harmful to the environment .@Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Is there any other solution then getting sustainable!

Christine-Shanghai-Group founder

true. no perfect leather

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer they are making bio based leather

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

like modern meadows

Christine-Shanghai-Group founder

to get fur farm animals is also a solution for ecology system.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Alena~Shanghai~AGL we are getting more and more sustainable which is a good direction

Midori-shanghai-designer

These chemical fiber garments will be sent to landfills when they are abandoned. The resulting tiny plastic particles will then damage our oceans.

Christine-Shanghai-Group founder

yes.

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Vincent-shanghai-Incubator  Is this biodegradable?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer well i dont see this a long term solution

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

people r working towards solving problems by having less landfills

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer not sure how long will take for fully biodegradable

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

compose is not a good solution cause not long lasting

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

i have a PLA based poly bag is my office and is biodegradable but…getting thinner and thinner every time I show people.

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

that’s interesting

Midori-shanghai-designer

But if the clothing material we produce has a high durability of 3-5 years, it may reduce the degradation pressure.

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

I see

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

PLA is from corn starch and if everything turns into PLA then will compete with our food source…means more farmland?

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Vincent-shanghai-Incubator  interesting

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer so how do brands have a sustainable business model?

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

sustainability is not just environmental impact and working condition

Midori-shanghai-designer

Does the brand do the recycling of this part of the sustainable business model like h&m

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer they certainly can

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

i am going send my scrap polyester fabrics to recyclers to make recycled polyester yarns

Midori-shanghai-designer

But not many brands have the same ability to handle these used clothes as they do with H & M.

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer is not that hard

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

if any local brands want to do it i can help

Midori-shanghai-designer

@Vincent-shanghai-Incubator -shanghai-Incubator expect that

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

@Midori-shanghai-designer h&m outsource this to another company I collect

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

as long as u have the mindset to take the initiate step

Midori-shanghai-designer

I learned. Your offer was good .@Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

key is take 1st step and collaborate

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

Wow

Alena~Shanghai~AGL

That’s interesting @Vincent-shanghai-Incubator

Midori-shanghai-designer

about the topic How to get fur into sustainable fashion my conclusion is

  1. Natural furs from wild hunting and farming are sustainable
  2. Finding new ways to produce textiles

thanks to join in the discussion!

 

 

How do Chinese celebrities run their fashion business?

Event

Date: April,14,2018

Time: 8pm to 10pm

Subject of discussion: How do Chinese celebrities run their fashion business?

Host: Oran Kang-Shanghai-Senior merchandize of apparels.

Brief Introduction of the host:

Oran Kang has engaged in apparel buying business for over 10 years. Currently she serves in a buying office of a Spanish department store in Shanghai.

She has rich knowledge in working with European major brands, developing diverse product lines and sourcing and selecting suppliers that provide competitive prices and good quality of goods in China and South Asia.

Part One: BRIEF INTRODUCTION OF DISCUSSION

Nowadays the idea of a “slash” identification has gained momentum in China. People act different social roles. When we talk about the celebrities, they are not only the ones famous in entertainment circle, also can be stars in fashion business field.

A good example is Victoria Beckham, a famous singer but also successfully launched her career in fashion business field.

This discussion focused on Chinese celebrities mainly, we also appreciate that you can share with us any good cases from your countries.

Part Two: OUTLINE OF DISCUSSION

1. Sharing about the stories of Chinese celebrities who have succeeded in fashion business.

** Wilber Pan who is a singer, songwriter, rapper, actor.

** Nic Li who is a Chinese host.

They have collaborated and ventured into the business world. In 2009, they launched the streetwear boutique N.P.C (New Project Center)

** Ryan Zheng is an actor and signer, who is also an entrepreneur into fashion business, as he has established his own brands of Dueplay and Dahood with product line of clothing, shoes and other accessories.

** Show Lo(Lo zhi xiang) is a singer also running his clothing brand STAGE(STAGE Hyaline of World)..

Good points from discussion:

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

Kate Hudson is a good example

Eva Longoria is doing well in fashion business as well.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

Christina Aguilera has a perfume brand.

Rosie Huntington has her own underwear line for Marc&Spencer.

Heather-Christine Tsui Fashion community:

To have a slash career is also what I am working on it and I believe that this is the trend of the new generation.

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

I aware of some celebrities who also work as influencers on Instagram and they have the different agreement with the brands as a side business.

Vanessa-Gangzhou-Couture:

CLOT is a streetwear label and lifestyle brand founded by Edison Chen and Kevin Poon aimed to bridge Eastern and Western. And it is quite popular among young people.

2. What are advantages for celebrities to do fashion business?

** Varies financial channels

** Rich connections with a range of areas

** Potential consumers in fans

Good points from discussion:

Heather-Christine Tsui Fashion community:

They have media exposure which could bring them many biz opportunities

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst:

The public image of some or even most celebrities are created by professional company and staff, it is a luck for those who can show their true colors to public and even make money from the events.

 

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

They have personal branding management team.

P.Joy-Mel bone-Master of fashion

Yes agree celebrity does it more for brand image. They know they have fans who will support them as well. Otherwise when you think what is a connection from a singer to open a fashion brand or sort of business? They don’t even have the knowledge or experience. But they have money, they have loyal costumer where they rely on them and know they would buy.

3. How do they develop products in China?

In general, there are two ways to launch products in China:

OEM(Original Equipment Manufacturer). It is the most common way for major brands to cooperate with manufactures. Brands provide designs, fabrics and raw materials and manufactures are responsible for production.

ODM(Original design manufacture). It means manufactures produce goods ordered as well as develop original designs for brands to choose. This way is getting more and more popular.

Nowadays, fashion business cluster is pushing Chinese manufactures to be more creative. OEM cannot survive anymore, so the celebrities are becoming the leaders who collaborate with manufactures to make initial designs together. They authorize the copyrights of their names and images to third-party companies who will work with manufactures to develop designs and produce merchandises.

EXAMPLE 1: DUEPLAY was founded in 2014 by Ryan Zheng, who has launched the product line with “P” logo on the clothes, shoes and caps. It is getting very popular in China. DUEPLAY also launched a product line of sweatshirts with chicken pattern in Chinese Red in the year of the Rooster. This enhanced the enthusiasm of netizens, especially the ones whose birth year are the Rooster.

EXAMPLE 2 : NPC(New Project Center) is a buying store run by two celebrities(Nic Li, Wilber Pan), now their stores are located in major cities in China. The first store was launched in July of 2009 to sell the most fashionable garments and accessories.

Good points from discussion:

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

They have money and personal brand image to have a head start and license by leverage their own personal brands.

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail:

I think celebrities do business is just like others who have resources and enter into business, the difference is the kind of resources.

4. What we can learn from their successful cases?

** Celebrities cherish their images and good reputations as their lives, so we can learn the importance for new brands to build up positive images.

** Celebrities rely on professional team to make business stronger.

** Celebrities have richer relationship network than us, but we can also try to expand our social circle and make more connections.

** Celebrities can cooperate with brands to get win-win benefits. As for individual business people, they can also collaborate small brands to build stronger group cohesiveness.

Good points from discussion:

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

Yes, network is so important.

Heather-Christine Tsui Fashion community:

Good cooperation has a great power.

Grace-Shanghai-Media:

We can learn a lot from the successful cases and it would helpful for us to make our own fashion business.

Part Three: A BRIEF RECAP OF OUR DISCUSSION

1. We shared the stories of Chinese celebrities who have succeeded in fashion business.

** Wilber Pan, Nic Li and Ryan Zheng are successful models.

2. What are the celebrities’ advantages when they run a new business?

**Varies financial channels
**Rich connections with a range of areas
**Potential consumers in fans
**media exposure could bring them many business opportunities

3. How do they develop products in China?
** OEM and ODM are two common ways to produce the products for brands.

4. What we can learn from their successful cases?
** Celebrities maintains positive images to the public, so we can learn that our brands also needs a positive image.
** Celebrities have richer relationship network, but we can also try to expand our social circle and make more connections.

**Celebrities can cooperate with brands to get win-win benefits. As for individual business people, they can also collaborate small brands to build stronger group cohesiveness.

 

SUMMARY INFORMATION FOR DISCUSSION

Oran-Host- Shanghai-Senior Merchandizer:

Can you pls share about the stories of Chinese celebrities who have succeeded in fashion business?

 

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

Kate Hudson is a good example

Eva Longoria is doing well in fashion business as well.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

Christina Aguilera has a perfume brand.

Rosie Huntington has her own underwear line for Marc&Spencer.

Heather-Christine Tsui Fashion community:

To have a slash career is also what I am working on it and I believe that this is the trend of the new generation.

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

I aware of some celebrities who also work as influencers on Instagram and they have different agreement with the brands as a side business.

Oran-Host- Shanghai-Senior Merchandizer:

What do you think of advantages of celebrities to do fashion business?

Heather-Christine Tsui Fashion community:

They have media exposure which could bring them many biz opportunities

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst:

The public image of some or even most celebrities are created by professional company and staff, it is a luck for those who can show their true colors to public and even make money from the events.

 

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

They have personal branding management team.

P.Joy-Mel bone-Master of fashion

Yes agree celebrity does it more for brand image. They know they have fans who will support them as well. Otherwise when you think what is a connection from a singer to open a fashion brand or sort of business? They don’t even have the knowledge or experience. But they have money, they have loyal costumer where they rely on them and know they would buy.

Oran-Host- Shanghai-Senior Merchandizer:

Let check how do they work out the product in China?

Vincent-Shanghai- Incubator:

They have money and personal brand image to have a head start and license by leverage their own personal brands.

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail:

I think celebrities do business is just like others who have resources and enter into business, the difference is the kind of resources.

Oran-Host- Shanghai-Senior Merchandizer:

What we can learn from their successful cases?

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst:

Celebrities cherish their images and good reputations as their lives, so we can learn how important for new brands to build up positive images.

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail:

Celebrities rely on professional team to make business stronger.

Alena-Shanghai-AGL:

Celebrities have rich relation network, which we don’t have, but we can also try to increase our social circle to recognize more people.

Grace-Shanghai-Media:

Celebrities can cooperate with brands to get win-win commercial mode, and we also can put small brands together for stronger group cohesiveness.

 

Fashion is for KOLs ?

 

Event

Seminar: KOL Marketing @ Christine Tsui International Fashion

Date: 13 March 2018

Seminar Host: Heather-Wuhan-AGL; Alena-Shanghai-AGL

 

Outline

  1. INTRODUCTION & BACKGROUND
  2. ADOPTION AS A MKTTOOL
  3. PROS&CONS

 

Part One: INTRODUCTION AND BACKGROUND

KOL, or s so called “Key Opinion Leader”, refers to a person with a significant influence on people. In China, it can be a famous or just a regular person with large-huge fan base. The term KOL has been used in the marketing field, however, in our seminar we use this term as a reference to Chinese KOLs, whereas those in the West will only be called as “influencers”.

KOLs in China are mostly active on different social media platforms, such as Weibo, Bilibili, Wechat and many others. As seen bellow, the KOL was compared to the Chinese words “wang hong” that seems to have a very negative connotation in the Chinese language, which is mostly linked to gossiping.

The very first KOL in Chine appeared in 1988. Taiwanese writer Pi zi Cai became the first Chinese internet celebrity with his online romance novel “The First Intimate Touch”. Since then, as the internet and techniques developed, more apps and platforms have sprung up, bringing huge opportunities and more exposure for this group.

In a nutshell, no matter KOL or influencer, their role is essentially the same — They both collaborate with brands in term of product promotion and trigger the interest of their audience in desirable direction.


 

The concept of KOL

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

At start, let me ask you the first question: Has everyone in here heard about the concept of KOLs or网红?

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Someone very popular online and has both social and commercial value. What’s KOL in your opinion?

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

KOL is an influencer. For consumer, is influencer blogger. But B2B influencers are called thought leaders. The term is being used quite loosely.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Yes,very good. KOL,in other words:Key Opinion Leader.

 

Hangzhou-Jessie-co-founder

KOL means Key Opinion Leader.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Also, just to be sure. When we are talking about KOLs, in particular, we are referring to those in the Chinese market. Otherwise you also could have heard the term”influencer”as it was mentioned, but about that later.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

KOL is a term used worldwide, not just in China.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

It is, but it refers mainly to China. I would say that in the “West”, they are referred mostly as solely ”influencers”.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

KOL is a term used in advertising and PR for quite sometime.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Ok, so to be more accurate. As we will be talking about the Chinese market. Let’s refer to them as wanghongs.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

For me, wanghong is a bit negative, sorry. For the bias.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

Influence’s are more precise in defining the role. Influencers, influence people.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Why so?@Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

@Alena-Shanghai-AGL~Shanghai~AGL Natalie’s comment actually is a reason why KOL all changed names into influencers.

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

Because people have certain negative impressions about them@Alena-Shanghai-AGL.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Bias is hard to explain; and maybe because the word wanghong often appears in gossip etc.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Oh,I had no idea. How are these KOLs addressed in this case in China?As KOLs, influencers?

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

KOL and influencers are more inclusive and precise, as many of the influencers are not only active online but also in real life.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Oh, I see.  When did they appear?

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

So anyway, Does anyone know how and when did they “appear”?

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

The whole concept of, first online, influencers appeared?

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

I guess in China, it has something to do with Weibo.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Because I guess, once you are not a publicly known celebrity, you gotta start on the internet.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Maybe few years ago, people start call those girls“IT girl”?

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

Like the Chinese version of twitter.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Good guess.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

@Grace_Shanghai_media That’s one of their platforms.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Actually the very first one, that could be called an”influence”started in 1998.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Taiwanese writer Pi zi Cai became the first Chinese internet celebrity with his online romance novel“The First Intimate Touch”.

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

Haha, I know that one, Pi zi Cai.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

He actually got himself a nerdy audience of wanghong, or“networms”, which the term wanghong later was supposed to be created from:).

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Sorry for using  this term again, just for the sake of explaining. I agree 100%, and done without the internet. Of course with the time, the internet speed , our personal electronic devices and their cameras improved and the internet created a haven for beauty, fashion, lifestyle bloggers. And of course, people started posting and sharing pictures.

 

Part Two: ADOPTION AS A MKT TOOL

There are many ways of how KOLs/influencer can collaborate with brands. It could be compared to a pyramid of channels: brand ambassador, brand spokesman/woman, product spokesman/woman or regional ambassador.

Either way or another, the collaboration is mostly product-oriented. KOLs/ influencers are responsible for product promotion, such as garments, make-up, handbags in either very apparent way or in a very casual manner, such as randomly sharing their daily life photos with occasional showcase of the product.

As for the effectiveness of such collaboration, some are successful while some are not.

For example, some celebrities, such as Xu Weizhou, known as one of the popular pretty boys or China’s “little fresh meat”, ranking No.1 for social influence, is ranked first among the bottom 10 in term of commercial value. In other words, his influence or number of social media followers in not translated into sales, and therefore may not seem as a good investment from the brands’ perspective.

 

Therefore, it’s necessary for brands to do a little bit of a marketing research and investigation before choosing suitable KOL. Understanding their fans values, and being clear about their consumption capacity and preference are the most important factors brands should understand.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

I believe many of you have seen those people online,very very frequently.

无自动替代文字可用。

Source: 1’H 2017 Bomoda China Key Opinion Leader Index Reports

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Where is the source for this list?

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

Oh yeah.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

It’s a new study by Bomoda, a NY-based consumer intelligence company.@Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

From are port that looks at effectiveness of thoseKOLs throughtwolenses: social influence and commercial influence.

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

To me, they are more‘ star’ rather than KOL in china. I will say Chinese KOLs like Zhang dayi , Gogoboi, Freshboy, Rebecca…etc.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Yes.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Yes.

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

But in terms of a ‘influencer’, maybe they can be classified in the same category?

 

Grace-Shanghai-Media

Agreed.

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

This list shows much ads companies invest to those people.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Where I work, the marketing department refers to”celebrities”and”KOLs” but at the end of the day, the result should be similar.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

They are all adopted as MKT tool by brands. Many brands are collaborating with them by using their media exposure.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Yes.

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

Take the example of an bingbing on小红书,she is a KOL there.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

@Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail~Shanghai~High-endretail Yes!Haha.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

I should say the difference shall be based on whether they have company or group to build their image to become KOL.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

How many of you know the ways of collaboration between KOLs and brands?

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Brands’ ambassadors. Angelababy for Dior or UGG.

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

I have a good article on this issue to share but it’s in Chinese…

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Yes,those are very apparent ways@Alena-Shanghai-AGL~Shanghai~AGL

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

It explains the difference between brand ambassador, brand friend..etc.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Gogoboi and Mr.bag, Their commercial collaborations are successful.

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

I think the brands are trying to catch the fans behind the KOL.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Exactly.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

Collaboration between KOLs and brands start from bloggers in west, first like models.

 

Julie-Shanghai-High-end retail

I’ll translate  some key points. Pyramid of channels: brand ambassador, brand spokesman (spoke woman), product spokesman (spokeswoman), regional ambassador, regional certain line ambassador. And also brand friend, brand muse…etc. Their levels are different.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

I know that most of time brands send their products to KOLs, they post pictures. Sometimes KOLs get a special link, that will provide their commission according to the sell.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

They share their”daily style”makeup things….somehow actually from the brand.

 

Yohanna-GuangZhou-Student

Like some YouTubers who update their makeup videos, lots of brands will send their products to them.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Yes!As far as i know,Brands often expect more from collaboration with KOLs. They not only wish to expand their exposure by KOL’s attendance in many social activities like fashion show, but wish them to keep promoting their products in their daily lives.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

Maybe at the first they really shared daily style, but after were business.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Possible. Because that feels very genuine.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

The KOLs receive a product from a company and then they decide whether to share it?

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

That’s true! Soft tender ads all from daily life post chicken soup articles.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Something like that.

 

Vincent–Shanghai-Incubator

Ha ha ha, Chicken soup articles, ha ha.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Is there money payment?

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

And sometimes small company will offer KOLs a discount. I mean if you have a lot of fans, sure. But if you are more local, they will offer the discount.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

So any way,  their collaborations are mainly product-oriented.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Yes,I think so.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Do you think those ways are really efficient?

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Oh yeah, it works.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

And let me post another pic ha ha.

图片中可能有:3 位用户

Source: 1’H 2017 Bomoda China Key Opinion Leader Index Reports

 

 Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Wow, that’s hurtful.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Those stars are very popular, But they’re ranked as bottom 10 in terms of MKT impact. Why?

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Not agreed with Xuweizhou and Liuyifei.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

I mean it hurts their personal feelings…

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Yeah, me too. I thought Xuweizhou are doing good, but maybe his fans are not translated to sales.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Yep!

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

At the opposite end of the spectrum are celebrities such as XuWeizhou. Known as one of the popular pretty boys or China’s“little fresh meat,” the actor ranks No.1 for social influence. But when it comes to commercial value, he is ranked first among the bottom10.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

The situation for zhaoliying might be changed in the near future since she now has a very professional and capable agent.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

So that means the brand is wrong, they don’t do the homework well.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Yes.@Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation .

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

That because 99percent of the social media buzz by Xu’s fans is non-product or non-brand-related, according to Bomoda.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

@Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation Yes.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

In an other word,what makes you follow their recommendation? Any thoughts?

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

Who I follow are normally someone do a great in some other industry rather than just fashion industry such a s ads company or PR, etc.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

I reckon their lifestyle and value first, then products.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Brands need to do a better  marketing research. Understanding their fans are most important.

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

Me too!I never pay for the person I like, while pay for the products I need.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

@Oran-Shanghai-Merchandizer +1.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

@Oran-Shanghai-Merchandizer Do they recommend things you need?

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

But what if you have second thought about two products, but KOL just post one of them?

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Well, their job is actually to INFLUENCE your thoughts to get the first one. The one they are posting.

 

Natalie-Xiamen-Analyst

I will check the feedback from real consumers.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Let’s say they are equally good.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

I got to say i will choose the one looks more adorable.

 

Part Three: PRONS & CONS

When it comes to the PRONS & CONS of such marketing moves , It is undeniable that KOLs will bring huge profits for brands, and more undiscovered good products for consumers as well.

However, they can also be misleading for the public, by recommending those from brands they collaborate with, out of gaining interests.

And another fact is that most of the expensive KOLs actually won’t have any influence in China, simply because they don’t have any real influence. Their popularity is an illusion, created by so called zombie fans.

Such influencers, with a seemingly large fan base demand thousands of dollars to promote products on their personal accounts for…well…nothing.

So as it was mentioned before, with the goal of increasing sales and expanding the market, the brands need to do their homework. And as a consumer, you need to identify those really influential and beneficial to you.

 

 Alena-Shanghai-AGL

There are several platforms which allow influencers to reach their audience and get paid directly–virtual currency, gifts and many others. For example MeiPai, Yizhibo and HuajiaoZhibo, right?

Speaking of Weibo. I chose one example for our discussion, to see the concept from more practical, less theoretical perspective, and so 25-yo fashion blogger LiangTao, known as Mr.Bags(包先生).

Mr Bags: https://weibo.com/mayumilux?refer_flag=1001030102_

Mr Bags: https://weibo.com/mayumilux?refer_flag=1001030102_

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

Pls also check the feedbacks from other users!

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Everyone familiar?

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

Not really.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Just followed him last week.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

I like to watch benny’s vlog on bilibili.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

I am not familiar with bilibili.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

Is fun!

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Although I’m not a big fan of his writing style, use too much“!”

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

Check the numbers of fans 3millions. Don’t you think that is because fakes bags are to much in well-known platform like Taobao..but he can offer real ones.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

He is one of the most successful influencers at the moment, focusing on collaboration with luxury brands and promoting their products—bags.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Yes, he does. A huge fan base.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

Some of those’开箱(Means unpacking)’ open boxed is so fake…so promotional…so bad…

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

He has direct links on his Wechat to e-commerce platforms of the brands. Or he even has the”limited”editions.

图片中可能有:文本

Mr Bags: https://weibo.com/mayumilux?refer_flag=1001030102_

图片中可能有:文本

Mr Bags: https://weibo.com/mayumilux?refer_flag=1001030102_

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

That get SOLD OUT within minutes. That is the power of such a strong KOL.

 

Vincent-Shanghai-Incubator

I need to check my watch history hehe.

 

Oran-Shanghai-Merchandiser

Oh limits make people crazy!

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

He is more into sale bags compare to other KOLs like gogoboi.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

It has been taken to the extend that he even kind of sells or intermediates the sale of purses with his signature. So basically, as a fashion brand, you can get in touch with Mr.Bags and offer him a collaboration.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Mr.bag post more often compared to others bloggers.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Yes, because brands approach him very much.And he gets a lot of money out of such cooperation It can reach up to hundreds of thousands RMB for one article,Which I think is crazy crazy crazy scale of a business.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

I’m not a big fan of him, so this whole cooperation is a little bit bother me. Because I only follow him for the content of the bag.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

In this case, of course, the problem may appear if you are dealing with such an influencing person. As they very much case for their reputation, they can very picky in terms of the brands and their products.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

Anyone Follow her? Rebecca.

图片中可能有:1 位用户、微笑、文本

https://jingdaily.com/bomoda-report-ranks-china-kols-effectiveness/. 

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

Don’t like her style that much, not for me.

 

Vanessa-GZ-couture

She writes stylist, make-ups.

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

She cooperated with Mini Cooper last year.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

It more than just paying the KOL to promote your product, of course they are more sophisticated than that. First of all, the must like the product(which does not have to be obvious, since being a KOL has turned into a very well-paid job).

 

Second of all, the product itself should be align with the KOL’s philosophy/ideology/lifestyle/fashion style. Just as a brand, they need to be consistent in terms of their articles, post and recommendation to keep their credibility.

 

Another question I would like to ask, is…do you think there are any cons about KOL marketing? For the brands. After what we have gone through and what we have learnt about KOLs.

 

Heather-Wuhan-AGL

Misleading, they could mislead their followers to some extend,but that’s also inevitable, tho.

 

Alena-Shanghai-AGL

Nice guess.The fact is that most of the expensive KOLs won’t have ANY influence in China, simply because they don’t have any REAL influence.

Their popularity is an illusion, created by so called zombie fans. Such influencers, with a seemingly large fan base demand thousands of dollars to promote products on their personal accounts for…well…nothing. So as it was mentioned before, the brands need to do their homework:).

 

Astrid-Shenzhen-Operation

If you pick the right KOL, sure you can increase your brand awareness. That’s a con I think.

 

 Conclusion

We have covered three parts during this group discussion: introduction and background of KOLs;their adoption as a marketing tool; pros and cons.

As for the first part, KOL, or s so called “Key Opinion Leader”, refers to a person with a significant influence on people. In China, it can be a famous or just a regular person with large-huge fan base. The term KOL has been used in the marketing field, however, in our seminar we use this term as a reference to Chinese KOLs, whereas those in the West will only be called as “influencers”.

KOLs in China are mostly active on different social media platforms, such as Weibo, Bilibili, Wechat and many others. As seen bellow, the KOL was compared to the Chinese words “wang hong” that seems to have a very negative connotation in the Chinese language, which is mostly linked to gossiping.

The very first KOL in China appeared in 1988. Taiwanese writer Pi zi Cai became the first Chinese internet celebrity with his online romance novel“The First Intimate Touch”.

Since then, as the internet and techniques developed, more apps and platforms have sprung up, bringing huge opportunities  and more exposure for this group.

For the second part, KOLs are often adopted as a marketing tool. They can serve as brand ambassadors, brand spokesmen/women, product spokesmen/women or regional ambassadors. As for any type, the collaboration is mainly product oriented.

As for the effectiveness of such collaboration, some are successful while some are not. For example, some celebrities, such as Xu Weizhou, known as one of the popular pretty boys or China’s “little fresh meat”, ranking No.1 for social influence, is ranked first among the bottom 10 in term of commercial value.

In other words, his influence or number of social media followers in not translated into sales, and therefore may not seem as a good investment from the brands’ perspective.

Therefore, it’s necessary for brands to do a little bit of a marketing research and investigation before choosing suitable KOL. Understanding their fans values, and being clear about their consumption capacity and preference are the most important factors brands should understand.

What’s going to happen when fashion meets data: Sources, Tools & Benefits

Event

Seminar: Data Collection @ Christine Tsui International Fashion
Date: 03 March 2018
Seminar Host: Cliff-Madrid-Researcher Tsung (Madrid)
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher Tsung is an artificial intelligence scientist and a data science consultant working in Madrid, Kingdom of Spain. Cliff-Madrid-Researcher has worked for several national and European Union’s scientific projects with primary focus of intelligent software systems. He’s currently operating a data science consultancy providing intelligent business solutions to SMEs in Madrid.

Outline

1. Sources of data

  • Data as assets
  • Internal vs. External Data

2. Tooling

  • Investment in tooling
  • Tools vs systems

3. New technologies

Part One: SOURCES OF DATA

Data as assets

Given the definition of “assets” in business:
An asset is a resource with economic value that an individual, corporation or country owns or controls with the expectation that it will provide future benefit.
Data can be considered as intangible assets to business as they can be acquired, and they possess the potentials of generating benefits to the enterprises in the future. When we think of data management in business operations, we can, and we should, manage data the same way as we manage other assets.
Business owners need to understand that collecting data, as acquiring any other assets, comes with a cost. It is always wise to evaluate the potential benefits of the data / the costs of collecting them before taking any decisive actions.
– Cliff-Madrid-Researcher
From my personal experience, most of the enterprises from the non-tech sectors do not have an active data collection policy. Is your company actively collecting data from your business practice? Or is it a passive action?Especially those of you who work in fashion business. By “active” I mean the existence of a clear regulation / policy that is enforced upon the employees.

BettyWang-Helsinki-Student
Most of my previous client companies provide periodic competitor analysis. For data of products or fashion trend, they usually purchase data from third party. And for financial data, it is confidential except those disclosed by public companies in their annual report.
Katherine SH AnalystI would like to answer this one as working in the fashion industry – it is collected since that’s all we’re doing in my dept., which can be regarded as ‘big data’. But for other departments, mostly are relying on historical experience I/O what’s going on currently.
– Cliff-Madrid-Researcher 
There are multiple kinds of data that are valuable to businesses, they come in various sizes, sources, formats etc.Data is a kind of intangible assets to enterprises, and like all assets, acquiring them will carry some costs. It might be an explicit cost, as @Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst shared with us, or an implicit cost, such as time and pressure on IT infrastructure.

Internal vs. External Sources

The sources of data can be categorized by various attributes, for new data science infrastructure development projects, especially those which are being developed for SMEs, one such attribute is “internal” vs. “external” data, i.e. the data generated and collected from within one’s own business vs. the data collected from external entities.
We agreed upon the importance of the internal data over the external data for SMEs. The internal data are collected within the range of control of the business, i) it is usually cheaper to collect comparing to external data which business owners may have to purchase from the third party; ii) business can usually react quicker on decisions made based on internal data than external data, iii) the quality and the reliability are usually higher for internal data. Therefore, for new projects, to quickly show its value, internal data carries a greater value during the decision-making process whereby data science truly shines.
One should not underestimate the value of external data despite the aforementioned explanations. Some task can only rely on external data such as the pricing policy and the supply chain optimization.
– Katherine SH AnalystWe’ve tried third party as well but it doesn’t work out well, then managing level decided to get rid of it. It works out for financial or other aspects but just doesn’t work for fashion.
Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst 
It might be industry difference? We care a lot for competitor’s dataand it is really important for us in terms of settlement price etc. 3rd party info is not reliable so we often choose at least 3 companies and compare
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher 
Ok, from my own experience, those non-data intensive industries (excluding finance, tech, healthcare sector etc.) would witness a quick and better benefits from analyzing internal operational data.
Shanshan- Tokyo- investment
I’m not in the field but I think internal data should be more informative if the firms have the capacity to build a data team. 3rd party data is processed which might embed some bias caused by the data vendors
Alena~Shanghai~AGL 
So in other words get as much as you can from internal first and continue with external if needed

Part Two: TOOLING

INVESTMENT IN TOOLING

In order to achieve higher effectiveness and efficiency, one would consider invest in cutting edge hardware and software. A commonly overlooked reality is the fact that the primary factor for the successful deployment of data science project is the “people”. Adequate investment in tooling depending on the organizational nature and the capability of the employees should be made.
We agreed upon the benefits on investing in the training programs for employees to improve their skills with current tools, e.g. spreadsheets, SQL database etc. Several examples of advanced add-ons for Microsoft Excel were presented.
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher
As we said, we want cheap (low collecting costs) and good (high future benefits) data. In order to achieve that, we need better tools and supporting company policies. I’d like to hear from your experience. What software do you use for collecting data?
Christine~Shanghai~Group founder
Like POS, ERPMany software now. OMS. WMS. Many companies purchased expensive IT systems but only a very small part of the software is used.
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher
Many business owners put too much effort on purchasing state-of-art hardware and software, but overlooked the basic cost — people and their time. The biggest reason we want to buy some fancy systems with name of 3 capital letters is to lower down HR cost. It might be sufficient to use Microsoft Excel (or other spreadsheet software like LibreOffice) if it fits your need. Keep in mind that every action comes with a cost, is it worth it? That highly depends on the individual business. Small family-based tailors are probably better with paper and pen rather than SQL databases

TOOLS versus SYSTEMS

The requirements for ancillary technologies such as data science is vastly different in SMEs than their bigger counterparts. While large enterprises rely on the established and rigid protocols to ensure the consistency of their business operation, small companies opted for more agile approaches.
It is more practical for small business to consider using individual desktop or mobile software (apps) and maximize their utilities. Replacing currently functioning business protocol with an enterprise resources planning system carries a risk.
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher
For big enterprises with complicated business processes, “standardization” is really important to avoid chaos (to maintain consistency). So, software like ERP are essential for coordinating the business, clients, employees, materials etc.
Katherine SH Analyst
Remember back when I was doing intern in a fashion company ERP is just something to make the boss happy to see and most employees found it nothing but time wasting
Katherine SH Analyst for big enterprises changing system could be a headache, as employer it does hurt at the beginning
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher
@Heather-Wuhan-AGL standardization is practical in such enterprises. They need to play by the book. Stability above all, even if it comes with some side effects. But for small businesses, like most of my clients, we don’t “play by the book”, small business owners are more like “artists” than “engineers”. So when we think of tools, we need things on your belt that you can use it anytime you want, you can put it down or even throw it away anytime you want. And this is useful not only for small businesses but also big enterprises. If we consider departments of a big enterprise as individual small businesses, then we can adopt such agile approaches. A practical suggestion is to encourage your employees to learn better use of the existing tools, such as spreadsheets (Excel for example, learn VBA, learn simplex solver, learn socialbakersetc). There exist numerous interesting add-ins that you can use in Excel, for example the NodeXL is an Excel add-in that perform social network analysis.
28870961_417030092084336_1995724693742551040_nFigure 1 NodeXL Interface

Part Three: NEW TECHNOLOGIES

New technologies for data collection are booming. The rapid advancement of the artificial intelligence brings us some new opportunities to obtain the data that were once expensive or inaccessible. It is a forbiddingly long list of technologies that can be employed by fashion industry in various way, to SMEs in this sector, the computer vision and the natural language processing are two interesting topics that worth a glance.
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher 
With the advancement of A.I. there are many more things can be done by the computer 24*7.For example, the picture I just sent was a demo from face detection system, which can also estimate the gender and age of the person. Deploying such systems in the store, one can easily get a glance at the basic demographic info of the clients.

28685713_417030712084274_3156973323892555776_n

Figure 1OpenCV Gender And Age Prediction
https://github.com/torch/torch.github.io/blob/master/blog/_posts/2016-06-01-deep-fun-with-opencv.md
Cliff-Madrid-Researcher

This is another example of A.I. computer vision system can isolate human figures and parse clothing parts from a street photo. Then we can quick analysis what color, style, piece…do people prefer. This is an example from 2012

28870596_417031545417524_4775569742670856192_n

Figure 2 Cloth parsing with computer vision
Kota Yamaguchi, M HadiKiapour, Luis E Ortiz, Tamara L Berg, “Parsing Clothing in Fashion Photographs”, CVPR 2012.

Conclusion

Several important aspects of the data collection tasks were discussed in this seminar. The fundamental proposal was to manage the data as a type of intangible assets to the enterprise. Based on this proposal, a range of topics such as the investment in data collection, selections of tools and the new relevant technologies were introduced in the seminar. This seminar was divided in three parts. The first part of the discussion consists of the methodology for evaluating the sources of data, the participants agreed upon the importance of the nature of data as intangible assets and the value of internal vs. external data for small and medium enterprises; we further investigated the costs and benefits of employing certain tools in data collection, the participants agreed upon the value of enhancing the utility of existing tools; the final part of the discussion focused on introducing several new technologies which were relevant to the data collection.

To join the International community groups:

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麻花摊老板  13:16
First question
麻花摊老板  13:18
From my personal experience, most enterprises from non-tech sectors do not have an active data collection policy. Is your company actively collecting data from your business practice? or is it a passive action
麻花摊老板  13:18
Especially those of you who work in fashion business
Christine Tsui  13:20
U r right. Most dont
麻花摊老板  13:20
By “active” I mean the existence of a CLEAR regulation / policy that is enforced upon employees.
??Betty  13:23
Most of my previous client companies provide periordic competitor analysis. For data of products or fashion trend, they usually purchase data from third party. And for financial data, it is confidential except those disclosed by public companies in their annual report.
Qian  13:23
Would like to answer this one as working in the fashion industry – it is collected since thats all we’re doing in my dept., which can be regarded as ‘big data’
Vincent ?  13:24
there are companies out there collecting data like stylesage and edited
麻花摊老板  13:25
@Katherine SH Analyst How would you define “big data”?
Qian  13:25
But for other departments, mostly are relying on historical experience i/o what’s going on currently
Vincent ?  13:25
edited and stylesage collect all online sales data
Qian  13:25
by tagging our customers 😉
Vincent ?  13:26
about likes of asos Nordstrom and so on
麻花摊老板  13:27
Big data has a specific definition in modern tech practice, it means a set of techniques for store and processing data that is impossible to be processed with traditional means. It usually involves distributed computing (MapReduce algorithm)
麻花摊老板  13:28
great, that’s another observation. as @BettyWang-Helsinki-Student stated, competitor analysis is performed. I have seen many people are obsessed with “Competitor’s data”, it puzzled me actually.
麻花摊老板  13:29
Why would your clients have such interests in external data rather than internal business data?
Qian  13:30
We’ve tried third party as well but it doesn’t work out well
Qian  13:30
then managing level decided to get rid of it
麻花摊老板  13:31
@Katherine SH Analyst sorry, im a bit lost, what didnt work well?
Qian  13:31
3rd party data
Qian  13:33
it works out for financial or other aspects but just doesn’t works for fashion
Heather  13:33
@Cliff-Madrid-Researcher internal  biz data are more valuable for a company right?
???Natalie Lan  13:33
It might be industry difference?We care a lot for competitor’s data
???Natalie Lan  13:34
And it is really important for us in terms of settlement price etc
麻花摊老板  13:35
I believe many of us who worked professionally on data related jobs would agree that secondary data (collected by 3rd party) are not reliable / practical in many scenarios
Yohanna  13:36
Just say,as a student who the major is financial engineering,statistics is hard to learn,it needs good understand of mathmetics
麻花摊老板  13:37
@Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst you are right, we will get to that later
麻花摊老板  13:37
As @Heather-Wuhan-AGL questioned, if “big data” is more valuable to enterprises
麻花摊老板  13:38
What do you think ?
???Natalie Lan  13:38
3rd party info is not reliable so we often choose at least 3 companies and compare
Christine Tsui  13:39
@Cliff-Madrid-Researcher think of what?big data for enterprise?
麻花摊老板  13:39
@Christine~Shanghai~Group founder of the question made by Heather
Christine Tsui  13:39
i think most companies dont really know what is big data.
Christine Tsui  13:40
they have data. is data big data?
Yohanna  13:40
so big comoanies can coperate with e-commerce companies to get big data
Christine Tsui  13:41
like Alibaba Tecent?they r not just e commece
麻花摊老板  13:41
Let’s limit our discussion to fashion business
麻花摊老板  13:42
I have asked a bunch of questions, the point I was trying to make is:
Jeffrey Liu @??  13:44
Just the right time to jump in
麻花摊老板  13:44
There are multiple kind of data that are valuable to business, they come in various sizes, sources.
麻花摊老板  13:45
麻花摊老板  13:46
It might be an explicit cost, as @Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst shared with us
???Natalie Lan  13:47
Exactly
Shanshan Wei.533  13:47
Agree with the intangible asset, great point
麻花摊老板  13:47
ó an implicito coste, such as time and pressure on IT infrastructure
麻花摊老板  13:47
or an implicit cost* …. sorry for the spanish
麻花摊老板  13:48
Ok, so, what is “asset”?
麻花摊老板  13:49
A rough definition is – “An asset is a resource with economic value that an individual, corporation or country owns or controls with the expectation that it will provide future benefit.”
麻花摊老板  13:50
One key point here is that such resources should have potentials of bringing benefits in the future
麻花摊老板  13:51
An intangible asset is an asset that is not physical in nature.
Christine Tsui  13:52
right. Data is intangible assets?
麻花摊老板  13:53
@Christine~Shanghai~Group founder  if you are referring to the definition in accounting laws, I can’t guarantee.
麻花摊老板  13:54
such as “Corporate Reputation”, it is a valuable asset but not defined in the law
麻花摊老板  13:55
So
麻花摊老板  13:56
##  Data are assets, and it should be treated that way.
## Collecting data costs, data should generate future benefit
麻花摊老板  13:58
Therefore, our goal is to maximize the utility of our data: lower the costs, elevate the benefits
???Natalie Lan  13:59
one question how u judge the data is “beneficial to future “?
麻花摊老板  13:59
yes, good question
麻花摊老板  13:59
@Natalie~Xiamen~Analyst what is the fundamental goal of business
麻花摊老板  13:59
?
???Natalie Lan  13:59
People “thought” it is not valuable but it turns out to be crucial
???Natalie Lan  14:00
Earn money?[??][??][??]
Alena  14:00
I guess so [??]
麻花摊老板  14:00
Yes, very good. or let’s put it in a fancier way “Profit Maximization”
Alena  14:00
That’s the main goal at the end of the day anyway
麻花摊老板  14:01
So how do you calculate profit?
Alena  14:02
Revenue minus cost
麻花摊老板  14:02
revenue – cost
麻花摊老板  14:03
yes
麻花摊老板  14:03
so
麻花摊老板  14:03
When we say “data is beneficial to future” we simply mean it helps us to lower down the cost or increase revenue
Jeffrey Liu @??  14:04
But most of the companies are Short sighted ??
麻花摊老板  14:05
Keep this in mind, every single action you take in business is either to lower down the cost or to increase revenue.
麻花摊老板  14:07
@Jeffrey-GZ-Private Label I always have faith in business owners, I think they are knowledgable about their own businesses.
??-Alistair  14:07
It’s down to cash
??-Alistair  14:08
So i would say increase cashinflow, or decrease cashoutflow
麻花摊老板  14:09
@Heather-Wuhan-AGL That is a bit out of topic, try watch the lecture I gave last week
麻花摊老板  14:10
Ok, from my own experience, non data intensive industries (excluding finance, tech, healthcare sector etc) would witness a quick and better benefits from analyzing internal operational data
Qian  14:11
so true
麻花摊老板  14:12
So what do you think? from your own exprience. Is it better to emphazie on the internal, or external data first?
Shanshan Wei.533  14:12
Lack of skilled staffs is a bottleneck? – at least it’s what I observed in Japan
Qian  14:12
by mentioning internal operating data – is it incl display way as selling report or focusing on new ways?
???  14:14
I work  for full dress  , it is a small  market  ,     only  one company  I know  they  collect ” best sell ”  ” worse  sell “, and years possible  sell data , a HK  company  i worked  before
Alena  14:14
I would say internal cause external require additional cost that would lower the final profit
麻花摊老板  14:15
@Katherine SH Analyst That is processing the data, let’s focus on collecting them. For example, the demographic attributes of your clients
Alena  14:16
So in other words get as mich as you can from internal first and continue with external if needed
Shanshan Wei.533  14:16
I’m not in the field but I think internal data should be more informative if the firms have the capacity to build a data team. 3rd party data is processed which might embed some bias caused by the data vendors
麻花摊老板  14:17
Personally I support such strategy as mentioned by Alena.
麻花摊老板  14:18
Primary internal data (the data you collect from your business) comes first.
麻花摊老板  14:18
But why?
???  14:18
internal   maybe , deal with  own  matter first
麻花摊老板  14:19
Why internal data comes first?
Christine Tsui  14:21
direct related w ur biz
麻花摊老板  14:22
When we think of a question, it is wise to deduce to the most fundamental and then make sense.
Christine Tsui  14:22
direct representation of ur biz
麻花摊老板  14:22
Yes, Dr. Tsui.
Christine Tsui  14:22
agreed
麻花摊老板  14:23
Data analysis helps in decision making process
麻花摊老板  14:23
Once we made a decision, we definitly want to implement it later.
Christine Tsui  14:23
precisely
麻花摊老板  14:24
To successfully implement a decision, one needs to have some degree of control of the environment
麻花摊老板  14:24
Internal data comes from your “range of control”
Christine Tsui  14:25
yes. Though most do have such control at all
Alena  14:25
Aaah, I see
麻花摊老板  14:26
External data are, too, very valuable.
麻花摊老板  14:27
But the capability of desicion making might not match the data
麻花摊老板  14:30
To conclude the first part of this discussion: 1. Data are assets, and we should manage them as assets.
麻花摊老板  14:30
  1. Evaluate your decision making process, balance the costs and benefits of data collection
麻花摊老板  14:32
ok, it’s been 1hr and half, we can talk about data collection and storage from technical perspective as scheduled, or we can do some casual Q&A, what you think?
麻花摊老板  14:36
As we said, we want cheap (low collecting costs) and good (high future benefit) data.
麻花摊老板  14:38
In order to achieve that, we need better tools and supporting company policies
麻花摊老板  14:39
I’d like to here from your experience. What do you use to collect data?
麻花摊老板  14:39
Software, hardware
Christine Tsui  14:39
like POS
Christine Tsui  14:40
in retailing. most still us POS
麻花摊老板  14:40
yes, pos for sales.
麻花摊老板  14:40
HR?
麻花摊老板  14:40
supply chain?
Christine Tsui  14:41
ERP?
Christine Tsui  14:42
many software now.OMS.WMS.
Alena  14:42
ERP?
麻花摊老板  14:42
Human
麻花摊老板  14:42
People
麻花摊老板  14:42
your employees
麻花摊老板  14:44
I’m not sure about China, but human resource is a big burden in many places
Christine Tsui  14:44
yes
Christine Tsui  14:44
same in China
Christine Tsui  14:45
when u say big burden. means in terms of what?cost?or efficiency?
Alena  14:45
In terms of supporting company’s policy?
麻花摊老板  14:45
And many business owners put too much efforts on purchasing state-of-art hardware and softwares, but overlooked th basic cost, people and their time
麻花摊老板  14:46
@Alena~Shanghai~AGL come to that later
Alena  14:46
Ok
麻花摊老板  14:47
The biggest reason we want to buy some fancy systems with name that contains 3 capital letters is to lower down HR cost
麻花摊老板  14:47
We should keep that in mind, if your HR cost is low, Excel might be sufficient.
Christine Tsui  14:47
@Cliff-Madrid-Researcher exactly. it is same in China
Christine Tsui  14:48
agreed.
Christine Tsui  14:48
many companies purchased expensive IT systems but only a very small part of the software is used.
麻花摊老板  14:49
And this is related the question made by @Shanshan- Tokyo- investment
麻花摊老板  14:50
(She asked if “incapable employees” is a bottleneck for company’s adoption to new technologies)
麻花摊老板  14:51
You need tools and policies that is adopt to your own business’ capabilities. Don’t deploy fancy software if no one knows how to use them and you have no plan to hire some one new
麻花摊老板  14:51
are adopted*
Alena  14:51
Well, makes sense
Alena  14:52
Yep, but what if there is a constant failing human factor? Should you rather invest in better HR practice in that case?
麻花摊老板  14:53
From a survey conducted in China, less than 30% of the enterprises interviewed state the ERP systems that are currently deployed as “useful”
Qian  14:53
haha fancy system with 3 capital letter names
麻花摊老板  14:54
@Alena~Shanghai~AGL Good question. And very hard to answer. Keep in mind that every action comes with a cost, is it worth it? That highly depends on the individual business.
麻花摊老板  14:55
Small family-based tailors are probably better with paper and pen rather than SQL databases
Qian  14:56
remember back when I was doing intern in a fashion company ERP is just sth to make the boss happy to see and most employees found it nothing but time wasting
Alena  14:56
Get your point
麻花摊老板  14:57
@Katherine SH Analyst Yes. My family owns some factories in China, I was persoanlly involved in the development of deployment of the ERP and SPC (statistica process control) systems
麻花摊老板  14:57
The only reason such systems were deployed was to pass the ISO qualification inspection
Alena  14:57
Wow
麻花摊老板  14:58
But there is a catch
Alena  14:58
Personally, I had no idea it might be so inefficient or not useful even
麻花摊老板  15:00
For big enterprises with complicated business processes, “standardization” is really important to avoid chaos
???Natalie Lan  15:00
And it is expensive @Alena~Shanghai~AGL
麻花摊老板  15:00
So, softwares like ERP are essential for coordinate the business, clients, employees, materials etc etc
麻花摊老板  15:01
coordinating*
Heather  15:02
and those tools benefit the“standardization”?even they are not that practical….
Qian  15:03
for big enterprises changing system could be a headache
Qian  15:04
as employer it does hurt at the beginning
麻花摊老板  15:04
@Heather-Wuhan-AGL standardization is practical in such enterprises. They need to play by the book. Stability above all.
麻花摊老板  15:04
Even if it comes with some side effects
麻花摊老板  15:05
But for small businesses, like most of my clients, we don’t “play by the book”,
Christine Tsui  15:05
@Cliff-Madrid-Researcher that is true. hahaha
麻花摊老板  15:06
Small business owners are more like “artists” than “engineers”
麻花摊老板  15:08
@Heather-Wuhan-AGL Think of KFC, it might not be the best fried chicken in the world but standardization made it fast and consistent. The side effect is KFC cant satisfy your demand of putting carrot in the burger.
Christine Tsui  15:08
@Cliff-Madrid-Researcher exactly.
麻花摊老板  15:10
So when we think of tools, we need things on your belt that you can use it anytime you want and you can put it down or even throw it away anytime you want.
麻花摊老板  15:12
And this is useful not only for small businesses but also big enterprises
麻花摊老板  15:13
If we consider departs of a big enterprise as individual small businesses, then we can adopt such “agile” approaches
麻花摊老板  15:14
Therefore
麻花摊老板  15:15
A practical suggestion is to encourage your employees to learn better use of the existing tools, such as spreadsheets (Excel for example, learn VBA, learn simplex solver, learn socialbakers etc).
麻花摊老板  15:16
[??: 9c1c2821e600f82b07392ea864ba3872.jpg(麻花摊老板??)]
麻花摊老板  15:17
for example, with NodeXL, you can do social media analysis (to find your KOI) within Excel
麻花摊老板  15:18
This amazing plugin is free and open source (means you can even change the code)
麻花摊老板  15:18
there is a wide range of such free plugins, some might be very beneficial to your business with little costs
麻花摊老板  15:19
@Heather-Wuhan-AGL Supporting policies 🙂
麻花摊老板  15:21
Supporting policies shall be made once a company find data science might be beneficial. This usually includes training, extra bonous etc. I won’t go too far on this since it highly depends.
麻花摊老板  15:25
To conclude the second part:
  1. In addition to big and rigid IT infrastructure, one may consider simpler and agile tools for data collection and analysis jobs.
  2. Such tools shall adopt to the employees’ capabilities
  3. Tools are not mutually exclusive, one may use different tools at different levels (personal – team – department – enterprise )
麻花摊老板  15:27
I guess you are tired by now already. I’ll breifly say something about the 3rd part now.
Since people and their time are such valuable assets (a.k.a. expensive…) we shall consider automate some of the data collection process.
麻花摊老板  15:27
[??: d579b1b42677251b274a6b08799f2b3b.jpg(麻花摊老板??)]
麻花摊老板  15:28
With the advancement of A.I. there are many more things can be done by the computer 24*7.
麻花摊老板  15:29
For example, the picture I just sent was a demo from face detection system, which can also estimate the gender and age of the person
麻花摊老板  15:29
Depoying such systems in the store, one can easily get a glace at the basic demographic info of the clients
麻花摊老板  15:31
Another example is speech recognition
麻花摊老板  15:31
One may deploy some small microphones on the shelves of the store and such technology can detect keywords when people talk.
Christine Tsui  15:32
and RFID?
麻花摊老板  15:32
You may obtain some useful information by how frequently your clients mention a particular word
麻花摊老板  15:32
RFID is another less new technology, Zara is well known for using it @Christine~Shanghai~Group founder
Christine Tsui  15:32
though i suspect whether such recognition  is leagal?
麻花摊老板  15:33
Think RFID as “invisible barcodes”
Christine Tsui  15:33
yes RFID is not new
麻花摊老板  15:33
@Christine~Shanghai~Group founder @Vanessa  GZ  couture Very very good question, suprised me, most of my chinese friends rarely question if something is “legal” XD
Christine Tsui  15:33
my point is. the adoption of these new tech. whethet they will cause legal issye?
麻花摊老板  15:34
Such technologies are mostly illegal in Europe
Alena  15:34
I actually wanted to ask the same question
Alena  15:35
Seems a bit too invading to one’s privacy
麻花摊老板  15:35
There are some legal loophole that one can exploit, for example instead of recoding clients’ conversation, the system only counts the occurance of a set of keywords
Christine Tsui  15:35
that is smart
麻花摊老板  15:35
Then it’s legal in most countries. But again, I’m not a lawyer, I can’t give any legal advise
Alena  15:35
Well yes, but still ??
麻花摊老板  15:36
The computer vision system is legal, it is an add-on to surveillance cameras.
麻花摊老板  15:37
In Spain, we must put a notice on the entrance stating that “This facility is monitoerd by surveillance systems”
麻花摊老板  15:38
I’m not sure about China, U.S. etc, for legal advises you really need a lawyer
Christine Tsui  15:40
same in China
???Natalie Lan  15:41
If I were the consumer, I would like to be notified if the shop adopt this technology otherwise I will regard it as a privacy leakage and be offensive.
Alena  15:41
Good ppint
???  15:41
Even the system only counts the occurance of a set of keywords, but If people  knows still  would  be  uncomfortable ,  and it still  privacy concerns
Alena  15:41
Are you talking about the eye tracker, right?
麻花摊老板  15:42
yes, it is a big issue
麻花摊老板  15:42
[??: a324e81e5a6054d9ab4d8f1c4cee0d84.jpg(麻花摊老板??)]
麻花摊老板  15:43
let’s use a less agressive example
麻花摊老板  15:43
A.I. computer vision system can isolate human figures from a street photo
麻花摊老板  15:43
then we can quick analysis what color ppl prefer
麻花摊老板  15:43
or even what cutting etc
麻花摊老板  15:45
do a quick analysis of *
麻花摊老板  15:53
this is an example from 2012
Data is a type of intangible assets to enterprises, and like all assets, acquiring them will casts some costs

Q&A| Is it true that a Chanel cloth worth 35000 yuan will be thrown away after being worn only once?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel Wang

 

A question from Zhihu:

Is it true that a Chanel cloth worth 35000 yuan will be thrown away after being worn only once? (According to the following microblog)

The original micro-blog:

Poverty has limited my imagination… The rich do not consider how to wash the clothes at all:

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When I worked in a dry-cleaning shop, a guest took a Chanel coat worth over 600,000 yen (about 35,000 RMB). But it was faded after washing, so the guest complained us. We called the after-sales service center of Chanel, only to get an answer that “we have never taken washing into the consideration of designs.” … which means that the customers would throw it away after wearing the coat a few times… I could do nothing but be stricken dumb with the rich world…

In my opinion, even if the condition in the microblog is true, it at least should not be a common issue.

As a practitioner working in the garment industry for so many years, I know that none of the clothing brands dare to claim 100% reliable quality, for the quality inspection rate of clothing products could never reach 100%, but only in a certain proportion. So, sometimes the quality problems are possible.

As far as I concern, even if all the luxury brands in the world have quality problems, Chanel must be the last one of them.

  1. Old brand as Chanel is, reputation and quality are more important than anything else. Although, in general, the high-end product quality has regressed in many ways (such as the loss of some craft techniques for haute-couture). Chanel, in terms of either quality or service, however, is still the best of luxury brands.
  2. Most people probably know little about the staff training in luxury companies. Almost every company has staff training, but that of the luxury brands is much superior, especially in the training of front-line salespeople and VIP customer service staff. In most stores of common brands, if customers have any question to ask the clerks about price, dress material, washing methods or inventory, I dare to guarantee that nine times out of ten the clerks would know nothing unless to read over the tags or check in the system, let along their knowledge of clothes matching, fashion stories or brand history. But the service in luxury stores could be totally different. Of course, nothing could be absolutely, for I have also experienced poor service in luxury stores. , the salespeople of luxury stores have a better understanding of the products and services than the other sales staff. After all, the trainings are different. For the simplest example, if a customer enters the store, what distance to be kept is appropriate? It would be rude to be too close, for the customer feels overlooked to be followed closely. But too far, the customer would feel that the attention to himself/herself is not enough.
  3. Besides, it is unique for Chanel that it has not been listed yet. So objectively, it bears less performance pressure than LVMH or Kering. As a result, its marketing strategies are understated but luxurious, rather than extravagant and thunderous like other brands. The reason why I mention this factor here is that the quality usually gets worse when a brand is particularly eager to expand and gain in a short time. The too rapid development consumes the energy and time to ensure the product quality. Without this problem, Chanel’s strategy has always been steady, in some cases, too conservative in my point of view, which has made it miss some market opportunities (such as the opportunity to switch to a younger market). But maybe that is exactly why it can endure in a long time. So, I believe that the quality problem mentioned in the microblog could not a common issue for Chanel.
  4. Does the situation exist? Would the rich throw the cloth only worn once? The answer is yes, but mainly for the super riches in the Middle East (the biggest consumers of luxury goods in the world). Because their wealth is mostly easy money. So sometimes they have dropped the clothes to the laundry, they don’t even have a desire to get the garments back. Therefore, they really don’t care about the quality.

 

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Views| Is the Victoria’s Secret show an erotic show? How to treat the comment by Hung Huang?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel

 

Recently Hung Huang said on her micro blog that “The Victoria’s Secret Show is just an erotic show, relying on objectifying women and fulfilling the show with stars to seemingly increase its value.”. What does this statement really reflect? I want to say something about my view.

Actually, I don’t agree with Hung’s comments at all. (Any justified disapproval is welcomed; but all the other views without arguments are nonsense!)

The comparison of the Victoria’s Secret Show to an erotic show entirely reveals the viewer’s own mentality. The metaphor is similar to the ideology in 1980s, that any naked women or sculptures are supposed to be porn. The elegant arts sometimes have little discrepancy with vulgar businesses in somebody’s view!

According to Hung’s logic, almost all the fashion shows would be eroticism, for most of the time the models expose their thighs and shoulders. So, what’s the point for those editors, journalists, buyers, stars, going over to the show only for the flesh? Why are there so many designers diligent in producing new styles all the year?

So, please don’t humiliate the fashion industry! Don’t reckon the fashion industry practitioners as shallow crowds. Under the veil of fashion, there are indeed extravagant guys, hypocrisy ones and womanizers. But they are minority in the fashion world. The majority, just like any other industries, would work hard to devote themselves to the job they love and earn the money they deserve!

Although the products of VS are in quite low quality, and the organization of the showcase this year is said to be a mess, but the production and professionalism of the show itself should not be in doubt. The professional level of the models (except for someone) is also the world-class. But Hung’s comment completely diminishes the professional devotions of the directors, models, musicians, dressers, stage designers and even audience. What backs the fantasy show is the decades of consistent efforts of these people!

The fashion industry is easily to be misunderstood. Outsiders always hold two extreme views of the industry. Some people admire at fashion for working with stars, wearing fancy clothes and participating in the noble parties or something like that, when the other disdain it, for they think fashion is only extravagance.

In fact, the industry is neither that enviable nor that shallow.

The fashion world is essentially a female world. In this industry, eighty to ninety percent are women. Meanwhile, female consumers are the major forces of fashion consumption market. In fashion history, the woman once indeed was the role of “the object consumed by men”, in other words, dressing up only to please the man, in a certain period. But how many women nowadays can not survive if they do not want to please the man?

Q&A| Why the consumerism of fashion is easier to influence females than males?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel Wang

 

(The question from Zhihu.com)

Why the consumerism is easier to influence females than males?

For example, if advertorials boast the effects of some skin care products or list the must-buy bags of XX brands, many a girl would immediately set up for shopping at any cost, some even involved in nude photos as loan guarantees. But boys are hardly to be persuaded to purchase.

 

Actually, the question is not accurate enough. The questioner puts up with “Why the consumerism is easier to influence females than males?”, but his or her description only involves clothes and cosmetics stuff, in another word, living goods of fashion. So, the examples could not be comprehensive. Is buying a car not consumption? Is it still dominated by the female?

Therefore, it’s not appropriate to label consumerism as women’s priority, for it is only the discrepant consumption habits. The male chases quality when the female chases styles; the male resents shopping the living goods when the female is crazy about it in instinct; the male targets clearly the necessities when the female always pay for impulse…

As to the reason, I suppose only the consumption psychologists hold the right answer.

So, if the questioner is confused with female consumption behavior, I would recommend adjusting the question itself, to be more precisely, “Why the consumerism of fashion is easier to influence females than males?”

Above all, compared with men, women more intend to dress themselves up. Other than the instinct elements, women also need to be beautiful to live in this world for long historical periods, which could not be separated from the evolution of female’s social positions.

Not until the World War II could the independence of the female realize. For thousands of years, women could not survive without men. In order to outperform the other women, one must show off herself with appearance advantages, when the education opportunities are not always open to the female, which means a woman is hardly able to attract men with knowledge. By the way, men may not admire clever women at all. In the appearance competition, girls dress up and make up as much as they can, so the consumption is reasonable.

From this view, apart from the instinctive pursuit of beauty, the male’s hunting for pretty girls stimulates women’s passion for fashion. Girls pay for fashion and boys pay for the girls.

However, an answer like this is not comprehensive enough.

For example, more and more independent females live on themselves instead of males, so it is increasingly not necessary for these girls to cater for men’s tastes. But many of them still have much passion for fashion goods. So, what does fashion mean for them?

Many people, especially men, would like to label the women who are passionate for fashion as shallow ones. This sort of judgement obviously is out of the ones who do not understand the true fashion. In fact, fashion affects people’s behaviors and inner world greatly, instead of only function as decoration.

For instance, a woman in the high heel shoes would feel differently when in the sneakers, elegant the former but energetic the latter. I know it may be confusing for males, so gentlemen could image the feeling in a suit. Is it the same to the feeling in sports wears? Would even your way of walking change?

From that, fashion functions not only decorations but also communication—a channel to one’s own heart and to others’ inner world as well. Just like the first impression on a person is mainly rely on his or her appearance.

Obviously, females are better at express themselves through appearance than males.

Yet, in the recent years, more and more men would like to pay attention to the appearance and dressing, for they have become aware of fashion as communication functions that more than languages do, and the emergence of fashion consumption of men may also make a difference.

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Views|Where would the Double Eleven Festival go?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel Wang

 

Do you know the Double Eleven? Nov. 11th, the day before yesterday, is the largest shopping festival for Chinese. The information of it floods in my WeChat and it is reported that almost all the brands have broken their sales records. So, this time I would like talk about my own view on the Double Eleven Festival from the perspective of industry and consumption.

From the perspective of industry, several elements of Double Eleven have quite a reference value. First, I think Jack Ma, in the group of post-70s entrepreneurs, not only holds the best understanding of the post-90s and the Internet, but also is outstanding in the communication with customers. Originally the Double Eleven was only a point of shopping, but now it has become a grand carnival.

In addition, the festival promotes all the industries to some extent, which is held by one of my friend, Zhu Gangqiang, the founder of the Jacob Special Column. In his view, the explosive of the sales volume in one day or one week may cover the volume of the rest of a year, which would force all the industries to promote the efficiency of the whole supply and logistics chains. For instance, over 160 billion RMB goods needs to be delivered in 1-2 weeks. This volume would cover the annual GDF of some provinces. As a result, the supply, logistics and even online systems bear high requirements to deal with so many orders. Meanwhile, for many companies, the departments, from online system to customer service, would work overnight, so the severs also need to be fast enough to avoiding halting and delay of the orders.

As a result, hardware and software systems and even manpower faces a huge challenge, breaking the limits of a company repeatedly. From this view, the Double Eleven Festival rises the efficiency of the who industry, which is a positive effect.

However, I think this shopping mechanism has many negative effects at the same time. For myself, I only placed one order on the Double Eleven last year, and it was not a rush, but to book in advance. That’s all.

One of the side effects of this carnival is that some company would make their deals for whole year rushed into a single day. The insiders of online stores would know that the explosive sales would be followed by a high refund rate, 40% as far as I know of Double Eleven. Alibaba only exposes their sales data without the following issues.

Refund is a complicated business, immersed in the checks of each sections, costs of extra affairs and works of classifying. It can be imagined that the refunded goods may be only used once and sent back in wrong packages. For the sellers, this process is a kind of waste. The cost may never be calculated, or to say, exposed before. It would be a kind of harm for the companies.

Besides, the concentrated marketing is the same to a man full of leisure suddenly bounces up to fight overnight, which is far from common sense. Historically speaking, all the explosive stuff would not last for a long time, and the ones slow and steady would have a lasting vitality. In my opinion, the Double Eleven is not healthy as well, for it has no use in the long-term development of a company. Many companies only recruit staff for this particular day, and sometimes even a qualified courier is hard to find.

In conclusion, a large invisible cost hides behind the big day for shopping. It includes the cost of refund, marketing and temporary recruitment. , I think the extremely explosive sales mechanism is undesirable. Although there were offline activities before, 72-hour-sale from Dec. 30th to Jan. 2nd, the volume could not be as extreme as the Double Eleven, equivalent to a month’s sale.

In a word, I do not hold an optimistic attitude towards the future of Double Eleven. Comparing the explosions and long-lasting sales, I would support the later mode. But in this period, to be long-lasting is not as hot as to be fast. In the age of Internet, people would like to attach more attention to the myopic benefits. Above all, the money in hand is the best proof of success.

Views│How will the post-80s and 90s generation defend from the intelligent robots?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel Wang

 

I would like to share a case before the discussion of today’s topic.

It is the recruitment of my assistant, which is the hottest position recently, only open to my online community, with over 40 applications. The ratio is quite considerable. However, only four of the forty application letters barely satisfy me, when the other letters may cannot be regarded as letters. The writers seem know nothing about forms of letters, only leaving a line of “Please refer to my CV” without even a title or a signature. So, I decide to put the four better ones on probation, in two groups. They receive the same tasks at one time and the same salary as well.

The first group is dropped in a short time.

For one thing, they have little sense of time. It is acceptable that they would be occasionally too busy to deal with the part-time job, if they inform the colleagues in advance. However, they would say nothing until I find out their absence. Then, they would say “Sorry, I was too busy yesterday.”

For another thing, they are too careless. About ten out of nine youngsters I know have this defect. The most obvious issue is the misspelling. For instance, I find two mistakes in a nine-word title, and one of them types the “identity plate” as the “identity plead”. They seem to have no habits of double-checks, only to regret after the errors marked. What’s more, they seldom distinguish the three terms of “de” (a type of Chinese transitional words). As a result, the mistakes in their writing become a common issue.

Besides, the punctuation always goes wrong.

I previously reckon that the issues above are unique to the Chinese youngsters, but recently I change my mind. I have some dealings these days with a Britain law firm, which in the common sense should be a rigorous agency. But in the account settling, they wrongly take the number of 200 as 26000. Simple mistake as it is, four of them involved do not notice it at all.

In addition, they always take things for granted. Facing difficulties, many post 90s are not used to communicate, but would assume the matters in their own way—I think you would not need it any more, or I think it will be OK. Behind these I-thinks, they just skip the communication or confirmation.

All the defects above cannot acceptable, so the two candidates are dropped.

The third one is enthusiastic indeed, yet still quite careless. But for her, the problem that matters most is honesty instead of carelessness. After three days’ delay, I ask her whether she is able to undertake her responsibility. At last, she tells the truth, that she has found another full-time job, and she may be too busy to take this position.

I suppose that she may have found her job when she applies for the assistant position. She knows that her time is limited, but also is reluctant to give up this opportunity. Only at the last moment does she confess her dilemma to me, which is not an honesty behavior. So, I do not accept her apology, for the honesty is not reflected from the words, but the works.

The last candidate is still on her probation. Fortunately, she is better than the other three. I tell her the conditions of other candidates and I really expect her to take this position.

In my opinion, the carelessness is common among the post 80s, 90s and even the younger ones, especially the post 85s to 95s. I once owed it to the one-child policy and Chinese education, but recently I realize it comes from the internet. The post 90s have access to the overwhelming data and information on the internet from birth, so they are used to look through the flood of message without any signs left in their mind, so they would also not distinguish right from wrong. All the knowledges they approach to on the Internet are too convenient, making people think less and abandoning some good traditions.

Actually, the youngsters nowadays are very enthusiastic to their works, which is such an advantage. However, they are careless and lack sense of time, or to say, sense of promise—to finish the task in a certain time.

As a post 70s, I have been taught to double check the works since I was young. Yet the youngsters now are not familiar with that. They would send the results immediately after completion, caring nothing about the qualities at all. I am not blaming all the young people, but it’s indeed a common issue for the most youngsters, when only a small proportion of them would do their job truly carefully and earnestly.

I believe that, in the future, the unemployment would be quite severe, for the robots would be increasingly intelligent with little chance of careless mistakes. So, the careless people would be easily replaced, which will even be a social issue. In other words, if one can outperform robots neither in creativity nor in the carefulness and social responsibility, he or she will be the first group of people to be replaced. As to the question in the title, I believe everyone would understand my view. By the way, if you hold any other opinions, you are always welcomed to share your thoughts with me!

Views│What’s the uniqueness of the post-90s designers?

By Christine Tsui

Translated by Rachel

 

Recently I have interviewed some post-90s designers in the Shanghai Fashion Week, so I would like to write this essay about my feelings of them.

In my book China Fashion, I only interviewed a group of post-60 to 80 designers. But I have been observing the emerging designers of the post-90 generations for a long time. The eldest post-90s should be at their 27, newly maturing. To interview them in the Shanghai Fashion Week, I did some observation and research in depth.

Compared with the designs of the previous generations, the 20s-year-old designers share some obvious uniqueness. The most distinct point is their overseas background. Many of them graduated from Central Saint Martins College and Parsons School of Design, with apparent signs of their alma maters, especially the ones from Saint Martins. They feature the spirits of revolt and subversion, which is evident no matter what path they follow respectively.

Meanwhile, the era they were brought up in is an Internet one, a westernized one, and an abundant one, which makes them different from their predecessors.

Above all, they are bolder, or as mentioned above, feature the spirits of revolt and subversion, which can be seen from the themes of their designs. They would pay more attention to the social events, such as the equality of labor and the gender issue, as their designs, models and advertisements tends to obscure the genders. The clothes they design could suit both the male and female, which indeed partially from the trends. The model they choose are also with vague gender features, girls without obvious breasts and boys in slim shapes, and even the makeup on the models’ faces could not distinct the gender. All of them could be a kind of discussion on their gender values.

The politics and social issues are the realms that the elder designers would not engage in for the sake of many concerns. So, I would like to say, the youngsters are brave.

In addition, they care little about judgements.

The designers of the post-90s have a kind of self-admiration, and they usually would not be bothered with whether others like their works or not, as long as there is a group of fan, no matter a great pack or a small group, support them. This attitude may be shaped by the customers at the same age.

Specifically, the customers at their 30s to 50s would like to suppose the judgements from others when they are in something new, when the 20s do not take it much seriously at all. The youngsters now only focus on their own style, nothing to do with others. As a result, the combination of brave designers and the brave customers inspires a diverse fashion world for the young.

In this Shanghai Fashion Week, I was an audience of several designer brands, all for young ladies. But the styles are utterly diverse. Some are cute and adorable, and some are neutral, like SHUSHU/TONG, with exquisite sweet style. I also take an interview for MUKZIN, a brand I admire a lot, whose style can be a melting pot for all kinds of cultures, deconstructing many cultural elements. Just like the theme they launched out, “Mountains-Seas Book and the Jurassic Park”, combining the ancient orient legend with the western film. They break the edge of cultures and rebuild them as a mixture, which surprised me a lot. That a brand for ladies could goes like MUKZIN is such a unique style other than the typical lady garment.

In a word, courage and variety should be the best inclusion of the designs of the post-90s designers. They involve all kinds of theme in their designs and chase to be exclusive themselves. They are unique, but how far on earth they could go in the future, I think, may also rely on opportunities.